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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#261

Post by frogpelt »

squarefoot wrote: post #192
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

That is not the problem. I'm not a US citizen, but let's pretend I am; as a normal citizen (ie, not a politician or high profile important person) would I be more concerned about my personal data being sent to a foreign country who doesn't know me, my family, my job, and very likely will never give a damn about what i think, or rather my own government who has all interests to know what I think, especially during pro…

You have a valid point. One's own government is almost always more of a threat that another country's government.

But I think it's possible you aren't thinking of all the contingencies that are created by a foreign government having info about people in this country.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#262

Post by norswap »

cwhiz wrote: post #240
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

You can’t have a fair playing field with China unless they also have a fair playing field with the US. That has not ever been the case. China wants to have cake and eat cake.

Not the point. OP is talking about playing field between companies not countries.

He's saying "TikTok should not gather invasive data ... neither should US-based company".

If you oppose that, then you're basically saying "the US wants to have cake and eat it too". I guess every country for itself "works"... for a certain definition of "works".

Let's avoid regression to Chinese standard please.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#263

Post by IgorPartola »

gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

Have you met the American legislative process? This is the same country that when, for example, faced with stiff competition in the motorcycle market from Japanese manufacturers in the 1980s didn't start producing better and cheaper bikes, but instead just added a huge tariff on imported bikes over 700cc in order to boost Harley up. Why would this be any different?

Besides, this move isn't coming from the actual concern for citizens' and residents' privacy. It comes from the idea that economy and pandemic and terrible polling numbers for Trump mean he needs a distraction, as per his usual pattern. It was TikTok but it could have been catalytic converters or grandmothers or anything, just to get people talking about something else.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#264

Post by curiousllama »

gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

The problem isn't digital privacy; it's a fair bit more complex than that. Tech lenses aren't a great way to view geopolitics.

The US' international economic dominance is predicated on a (1) pronounced lead in certain industries and (2) a simply massive economy, which combine to (3) let the US set the rules of international "fair play." The US is where you find the thing you want to buy, and the people you want to sell to. You want access? Play by our rules - everywhere.

Tik Tok does not just threaten US data. It threatens our lead in a critical industry (1), and comes from a country that minimizes the impact of US economic might (2), meaning that China can set their own rules of "fair play" (3). Banning Tik Tok isn't to protect US data; that's totally missing the point. It's to protect the American ability to set international norms.

From that lens, this is certainly hamfisted, and I certainly don't believe views it like this, but you can damn well bet the policy nerd drafting this EO is thinking this way.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#265

Post by yumraj »

squarefoot wrote: post #192
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

That is not the problem. I'm not a US citizen, but let's pretend I am; as a normal citizen (ie, not a politician or high profile important person) would I be more concerned about my personal data being sent to a foreign country who doesn't know me, my family, my job, and very likely will never give a damn about what i think, or rather my own government who has all interests to know what I think, especially during pro…

That is extremely simplistic thinking.

For a moment think: your data goes to China. China learns over the years about you, including something that can be used against you. At some point in future you are in a position at a company or have a government position where China has an interest in you, at that time it can use the data collected over the years to compromise you.

If you think that will never be the case, let’s go further, what about your spouse or even further your kids when they grow up.

Governments play the long game.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#266

Post by falcolas »

panpanna wrote: post #143

Not sure what to feel about this one. I don't like this company, which has already started censoring foreign nationals based on what CCP allows. At the same time, how can a single person decide the fate of a company in a different country? What will be next? Furthermore, what if EU decides Instagram is somehow a threat and must be shut down?

> At the same time, how can a single person decide the fate of a company in a different country?

The single person was explicitly elected to speak and act on America’s behalf. The same single person is the commander in chief for America’s military, giving them quite a bit of power when interacting with foreign countries.

And they’re impacting a foreign company’s operations in the US, something which seems to fall within the powers granted to them.

In general, I don’t like what he’s doing, but the why and how in this case appear to be by the book.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#267

Post by anthk »

swebs wrote: post #246
buran77 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Plans for global dominance" can mean more than just achieving it. One can also plan to maintain it or grow it. Perhaps it's just semantics but an important distinction. In this particular case China's plan to achieve global dominance is in stark opposition to the US's plan to maintain global dominance.

>the US's plan to maintain global dominance I really don't know what you're trying to say. If the USA achieved global dominance, there would be no China. There would only be the USA. Globally. Obviously, that's not the case.

>. If the USA achieved global dominance, there would be no China.

And that day they would be no US West and East coast... populated. You know what I mean.

Also, China owns the US economy by buying its debt. Try to crash down China, and look how the Dow Jones gets more sunk than the Marianas.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#268

Post by falcolas »

naveen99 wrote: post #238

Anybody else binging on tiktok before it gets banned and in the remote chance an American can’t save it by buying it from bytedance ?

In a world with more quality entertainment than one could consume in their lifetime, no. I never even started on tiktok, since it offered so little in comparison to everything else out there.

But, as with everything, that’s just my opinion.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#269

Post by m3kw9 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #227
m3kw9 wrote: post #224

Hello, the data angle is just a diversion for kicking out tiktok and we chat getting too big and kicking American tech giants ass. Too dominant. It’s protectionism

Tiktok maybe, but wechat has negligible market share in the USA (And anywhere outside China), mostly just used by people who come from China.

We chat banning US trying to high ball China, it’s extra chips in negotiation.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#270

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #257
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like you are forced to download the app at gunpoint.

In order to exist as functional part of modern society you pretty much have to be on at least a couple apps that exfiltrate all your data and metadata. Sure you can DIY everything but that comes with a huge time cost that most simply cannot afford. The point out preferring one's data in the hands of a regime that doesn't have jurisdiction to send jack booted thugs to kick in one's door still stands.

> In order to exist as functional part of modern society you pretty much have to be on at least a couple apps that exfiltrate all your data and metadata.

I think you vastly overestimate 1) how much a functional human in modern society actually needs any of this garbage and 2) how much of that data and metadata is meaningful in regards to someone's privacy.

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