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Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

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Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#671

Post by anonunivgrad »

eru wrote: post #524
anonunivgrad wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for Uber being allowed to seize the market with their ultra low prices, which are only possible because they class their labor as contractors, there would be companies more like Uber than like taxis but that treat their employees like employees. The problem with taxis was the medallion system and other crazy regulations. There is a middle ground. No medallions or other protectionist measures, but you have to trea…

I wouldn't call that a middle ground, that would sort-of imply that your suggestion is in between the two approaches. The old system with medallions also had the drivers as independent contractors. Your suggestion would be something different from both existing approaches. Edit: no opinion implied on whether your suggestion is any good or not.

All good points.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#672

Post by LeonidasXIV »

bohm wrote: post #596
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Lyft/Uber can upgrade them to employees but the arithmetic of bottom-up economics means Uber has to raise prices to cover full employment benefits. The raised fares conflict with what passengers are willing to pay Then the business is not profitable enough to exist. Simple as that.

People still need transportation.

> People still need transportation.

Uber left Denmark after they decided that they have no interest in adhering to the relevant regulations. We still have trains, commuter trains, subways, busses, bikes, scooters, taxis and cars. People still can get to places and fairly conveniently.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#673

Post by mcrad »

dustinmoris wrote: post #577

Lots of HN comments are here like "I know people who prefer to be contractors", "My sister's neighbours little brother actually doesn't want to be treated with respect by Uber", blah This is utter nonsense. Being a contractor means being self employed. You don't get paid leave or sick pay. It's a risk taking and doesn't make any sense in the gig economy where the wages are close to minimum rates. If you are truly sel…

Agreed mostly with you about negative impact of the gig economy. However, not seeing how the slavery element goes away with your proposal. Better regulations YES, but wouldn't you just be reinforcing the power of the slavemaster by converting his temp labor to perm?

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#674

Post by rideontime »

JaceLightning wrote: post #665
dustinmoris wrote: post #577

Lots of HN comments are here like "I know people who prefer to be contractors", "My sister's neighbours little brother actually doesn't want to be treated with respect by Uber", blah This is utter nonsense. Being a contractor means being self employed. You don't get paid leave or sick pay. It's a risk taking and doesn't make any sense in the gig economy where the wages are close to minimum rates. If you are truly sel…

I vehemently disagree. I used to tutor for Chegg tutors on the side--outside my main job. They paid ~$20/hr and for 5-10 hours I week I could bring in some extra money for food and rent. They shut it down in my state because they reclassified them as employees, and Chegg was not going to do all that leg work to bring people on as part-time employees. I didn't need benefits like sick days or unpaid leave since it was…

If you care so much about the kids you were tutoring, why didn't you continue tutoring them yourself, without the rent-seeking middleman?

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#675

Post by itsoktocry »

JaceLightning wrote: post #665
dustinmoris wrote: post #577

Lots of HN comments are here like "I know people who prefer to be contractors", "My sister's neighbours little brother actually doesn't want to be treated with respect by Uber", blah This is utter nonsense. Being a contractor means being self employed. You don't get paid leave or sick pay. It's a risk taking and doesn't make any sense in the gig economy where the wages are close to minimum rates. If you are truly sel…

I vehemently disagree. I used to tutor for Chegg tutors on the side--outside my main job. They paid ~$20/hr and for 5-10 hours I week I could bring in some extra money for food and rent. They shut it down in my state because they reclassified them as employees, and Chegg was not going to do all that leg work to bring people on as part-time employees. I didn't need benefits like sick days or unpaid leave since it was…

>It's the bloody taxi companies trying to get back at Uber because taxi drivers ARE real jobs that require real benefits, and they can't compete with a better business model.

Ah, yes, Big Taxi conspiracy.

I can't imagine thinking a company losing billions while subsidizing chauffeurs for rich people while skirting laws is a "better business model".

>Fuck California.

Have you considered living in a place that doesn't require you to do "gig work" on top of your regular job in order eat? Isn't that the world we want?

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#676

Post by karlakush »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #623
jquery wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slaves, mmm.... yes I remember the first day that jackbooted thugs from Uber forced me to drive for the company. Every day that I felt like driving instead of doing literally anything else, these Uber slavemasters would show up with their chains and their whips. The horror... I hope Uber goes out of business so I can finally go back to my old life...

As a non US citizen that does not live in America and just looks from the outside, I'm always amazed at the rapid transformation going on in the last decade. If hackernews is a sample of the general american population, you guys are becoming communist. And it won't end well.

[dead]

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#677

Post by LatteLazy »

anticensor wrote: post #647
LatteLazy wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Secure employment vs > At will employment

This is not black-or-white. You can have parts of both.

Can you? Not trying to argue, I am a limey brit so I don't know the exact details. /r/legaladvice seems to be filled with people being fired for no reason or just de-scheduled or having their wages cut and it's all perfectly legal...

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#678

Post by samtheprogram »

newsclues wrote: post #643
eie73hrhdje wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... we should treat each other with more dignity... You mean like respecting their decision to engage in gig work despite every other available option? That kind of dignity? The whole issue is pretty rich coming from California. If people are struggling the answer is never that the cost of living is too high due to rediculous zoning and environmental regulations, clearly it's the greedy companies that are the proble…

Do people do gig work out of choice or necessity? Just because people choose or are forced to do a job doesn’t mean they do not deserve respect

If it’s out of necessity, it’s often because it’s their second job to some other job that _actually has a schedule_ but doesn’t schedule them full time to avoid giving them the typical benefits of full time workers. Or at least that’s what I’m hearing from business owners and part time workers... right?

I tend to think a work-as-you-want service like Uber or Lyft that pay above minimum wage couldn’t be more fitting to a self-employed / contractor description.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#679

Post by TeaDrunk »

eie73hrhdje wrote: post #642
dustinmoris wrote: post #577

Lots of HN comments are here like "I know people who prefer to be contractors", "My sister's neighbours little brother actually doesn't want to be treated with respect by Uber", blah This is utter nonsense. Being a contractor means being self employed. You don't get paid leave or sick pay. It's a risk taking and doesn't make any sense in the gig economy where the wages are close to minimum rates. If you are truly sel…

>... we should treat each other with more dignity... You mean like respecting their decision to engage in gig work despite every other available option? That kind of dignity? The whole issue is pretty rich coming from California. If people are struggling the answer is never that the cost of living is too high due to rediculous zoning and environmental regulations, clearly it's the greedy companies that are the proble…

There is labor that is generally understood to be unhealthy to participate in. It’s generally considered unethical to hire children outside of ones own to labor. It’s generally considered unethical to labor in the business of knowingly selling highly addictive drugs, or killing people, or robbing people, or stalking people, or scamming people.

Should we also respect and have no guardrails for people who destroy their lives via cults, MLMs, scam artists, addiction, etc?

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#680

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jasode wrote: post #589
dustinmoris wrote: post #577

Lots of HN comments are here like "I know people who prefer to be contractors", "My sister's neighbours little brother actually doesn't want to be treated with respect by Uber", blah This is utter nonsense. Being a contractor means being self employed. You don't get paid leave or sick pay. It's a risk taking and doesn't make any sense in the gig economy where the wages are close to minimum rates. If you are truly sel…

>All gig workers are slaves and we should treat each other with more dignity and upgrade them to employees. It's our bloody duty as a decent human being. Lyft/Uber can upgrade them to employees but the arithmetic of bottom-up economics means Uber has to raise prices to cover full employment benefits. The raised fares conflict with what passengers are willing to pay . E.g. even though yellow medallion taxis often cost…

Why wouldn’t taxi drivers be forced to become employees as well as truck drivers and other gig economy workers?
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