Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

Post by plankers » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 11:10 AM UTC

jasode wrote: post #625

mercer wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe what this really comes down to is that society is not willing to pay the higher prices for drivers to be treated as employees. Same situation as not willing to paying higher prices at hair salons so hair stylists are full employees (instead of being contractors) with healthcare. It does seem like constantly blaming Uber for mis-categorizing employees conveniently shifts the blame from the society/customer…

>There seems to be a trend to have 'flex-workers' (contractors) where in practice they all quack like employee ducks, without many of the benefits and guarantees. It mostly feels like a loop-hole and /of course/ the average consumer will go for cheap and convenient when they can. doesn't mean it's a good thing for society (and in particular the workers). Well, instead of abstract descriptions about trends of mis-clas…

Post by newsclues » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 11:27 AM UTC

eie73hrhdje wrote: post #642

dustinmoris wrote: post #577

Lots of HN comments are here like "I know people who prefer to be contractors", "My sister's neighbours little brother actually doesn't want to be treated with respect by Uber", blah This is utter nonsense. Being a contractor means being self employed. You don't get paid leave or sick pay. It's a risk taking and doesn't make any sense in the gig economy where the wages are close to minimum rates. If you are truly sel…

>... we should treat each other with more dignity... You mean like respecting their decision to engage in gig work despite every other available option? That kind of dignity? The whole issue is pretty rich coming from California. If people are struggling the answer is never that the cost of living is too high due to rediculous zoning and environmental regulations, clearly it's the greedy companies that are the proble…

Post by 72deluxe » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 11:30 AM UTC

jlokier wrote: post #434

shrimpx wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> argued that they were basically doing the same work as employees I think that's case by case though. Contractors usually do finite focused projects and don't want to be employees. I myself was self-employed for 5 years doing specific contracts as a software engineer. I was "writing code" which is "the same work" as employees. Were all those companies breaking the law? > Legally, in California, they can't do that. D…

In the UK, the government has taken the view that in some sense, yes, some contractors who were claiming to be self-employed were in fact employees and therefore have to pay more tax (the same tax as other employees), and can claim fewer expenses against tax (also the same as other employees). The underlying principle is equal treatment. There is no advantage to the individuals from that decision, nor is there any in…

Post by anticensor » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 11:44 AM UTC

LatteLazy wrote: post #586

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judge certainly does understand what is going here. Secure employment is being replaced with "gigs" to the point where a huge chunk of the country has no stable income and is one week away from homelessness.

> Secure employment vs > At will employment

Post by LatteLazy » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 11:49 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #304

droidno9 wrote: post #18

The relevant statute:[0] 2750.3. (a) (1) For purposes of the provisions of this code and the Unemployment Insurance Code, and for the wage orders of the Industrial Welfare Commission, a person providing labor or services for remuneration shall be considered an employee rather than an independent contractor unless the hiring entity demonstrates that all of the following conditions are satisfied: (A) The person is free…

This seems to pretty conclusively result in Uber drivers being employees, then. Specifically, in B. It's going to be hard for Uber to argue that driving cars is outside of the usual course of Uber's business.