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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#81

Post by DetroitThrow »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #50
evbpcapfxy wrote: post #5

Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Should the president really have this power?

> Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Congress creates laws. The President enforces them. This is an enforcement action--it's not unusual for Congress to be uninvolved. > Should the president really have this power? Multiple Congresses gave these powers to the President [1][2][3]. The current and next ones are free to take them back. My personal belief is no, the President shouldn't have this power in…

Constitution and constitutional precedent also imbues the powers of foreign affairs onto the president unless there's legislation. Jefferson pushed for this to be the case: "The transaction of business with foreign nations is executive altogether. It belongs, then, to the head of that department, except as to such portions of it as are specially submitted to the Senate. Exceptions are to be construed strictly"

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#82

Post by puranjay »

ponker wrote: post #33
ladberg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does China doing something make it ok for the US to do it too?

Because if you keep trying to take the "high road" you'll keep losing your IP and getting nothing for it.

No, by taking the "high road" and valuing freedom and rights, you get global influence and alliances that are worth far, far more in the long run than any short-term profits your IP might get you.

You don't get world-class talent moving to your country by being a totalitarian state. You get it by valuing individual rights and freedom.

I'm amazed at the short-term thinking behind these moves - and the fact that HN, of all places, is cheering it

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#83

Post by VBprogrammer »

Slartie wrote: post #49
evbpcapfxy wrote: post #5

Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Should the president really have this power?

> Should the president really have this power? No.

This will be an unpopular opinion no doubt but the question isn't "should the president have this power?" It is actually "should this president have this power?" The answer to the second one is more challenging since he doesn't respect the norms of political restraint.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#84

Post by onetimemanytime »

evbpcapfxy wrote: post #5

Why is congress not involved if it's so important? Should the president really have this power?

Congress has given the President this power, as the article says:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1701

"(a) Any authority granted to the President by section 1702 of this title may be exercised to deal with any unusual and extraordinary threat, which has its source in whole or substantial part outside the United States, to the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States, if the President declares a national emergency with respect to such threat."

USA has given its President a lot more power over the years and decades.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#85

Post by DetroitThrow »

khuey wrote: post #30
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

The US has decided to allow people to sue the government for things like this. Doesn't mean they'll win, of course, but having legal recourse in the courts is something that we have decided to allow.

It works out great for fairness usually, and works out great for lawyers' salaries almost always!

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#86

Post by kittiepryde »

BoorishBears wrote: post #34
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

I keep seeing comments like this There are reasons you can oppose this ban, but this isn't a good one of those reasons. - The US promises certain freedoms and protections, and TikTok is saying the US is unfairly denying them those freedoms and protections. China doesn't promise those things to anyone, so there's no grounds to complain they're not being fair. I mean, imagine this argument applied to other things. "The…

This makes me think about it mathematically. C(us) -> M{us}; C(ch) -> M{us,ch}; P(c) proportional M; S{C} -> P;

Where, the company with greater market access, has greater access to profit, and then greater chances of winning. We strip away all other pretenses, it might just boil down to, S(C(us)) S(C(ch)) is the goal, changing the rule set is the only available action.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#87

Post by DetroitThrow »

cortesoft wrote: post #77
ponker wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you keep trying to take the "high road" you'll keep losing your IP and getting nothing for it.

If you want to do something about Chinese business practices, than do something within the constraints of the law. If TikTok wins, it means that we didn't follow our own laws. Either change the laws or follow the current ones.

The executive branch's broad authority to regulate foreign commerce has been a constitutional privilege from the beginning - Jefferson strongly advocated for it, for example. Only legislation would disallow this order from going through.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#88

Post by bawolff »

bleah1000 wrote: post #64
bawolff wrote: post #6

> The app has also been used to antagonize the president, including when thousands of teens reserved tickets to the president's rally in Tulsa, Okla., with no intention of going, inflating the Trump campaign's expectations for the event and causing embarrassment over the disappointing turnout. Forgot that was organized on tiktok. All makes sense now. If US was really interested in national security i'm pretty sure zo…

Did you know that the Democrats are also not too happy with TikTok and the CCP? Biden even had his staffers remove the app. This is not as Trump/Republicans partisan as people think. There is a lot of bi-partisan support for TikTok as dangerous. It's highly probably that the solution is not the same, but many politicians are definitely worried about the app. It's also weird that so many people believe this idea that…

> A bunch of kids on TikTok saying they reserved tickets is not the same as actual proof.

How is that relavent? Media claimed it was an embarrasment, trump wasn't able to spin it. Does it really matter what the kids did or did not do. Its an embarasment if there is public preception it is an embarassment. It isnt any less of an embarassment even if you are right that the story is based on something untrue (which seems doubtful to me).

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#89

Post by ailun »

I hope they win. Living in China, I told my friends here that at least they will have their day in court - a win would really help show an advantage of the US system in a high-profile way.

Trump is doing so much to hurt the US image among Chinese citizens right now. His administration emphasizes the importance of the distinction between the government and the people, but his actions are only driving the two closer together. Poor strategy in my opinion.

Also, I’m really worried about the supposed Tencent ban. There’s no way I can get rid of WeChat...

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#90

Post by path411 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #34
OneGuy123 wrote: post #26

Imagine US companies suing China for not allowing them to operate there. People would say "China can decide what they want to allow". Well if China can decide (which they did first) two can play this game. Also TikTok says this ban is baseless. If USA's ban of TikTok is baseless, what base does China have for banning everything?

I keep seeing comments like this There are reasons you can oppose this ban, but this isn't a good one of those reasons. - The US promises certain freedoms and protections, and TikTok is saying the US is unfairly denying them those freedoms and protections. China doesn't promise those things to anyone, so there's no grounds to complain they're not being fair. I mean, imagine this argument applied to other things. "The…

How does the Chinese government sue the us government for not having American rights? This literally makes no sense. How can do many people here not understand that Chinese created companies literally are owned and operated by their gov? How do you think the great firewall/mass gov censureship/social scores work?
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