I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India • Hacker News Board

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#161

Post by wyclif » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 4:02 AM UTC

praveen9920 wrote: post #34

blntechie wrote: post #24

I think what the OP went through is pretty much re-zoning of an agricultural land to commercial/industrial land which probably will run into similar roadblocks in Western world too? Of course, not saying it will take this long but have heard about similar bureaucracy. Small town governments in USA at least are very strict with their zoning codes and based on things what I have heard, changing the zone sometimes requi…

It is not just about red tape, it is about corruption. Govt. Employees in India join the Govt job only for "alternative" revenue ( bribes ). This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done. To take an example a simple thing like driving license takes couple of months to get if one is planning not to involve an age…

It's the same in the Philippines and other developing countries run by corrupt trapo ("filthy rags") politicians. If you go down to the LTO (Land Transportation Office) to get your driver's license, the entrance is crowded with "fixers" who, for a fee of course, will take care of your license for you and even take the driving test for you. There is no enforcement in terms of making the applicant take the driving test themselves, so guess what? For a fee you don't have to prove you can drive or even know the rules of the road. You'll probably get your license in a hour or so. If you insist on doing it yourself and making an end run around this "system", it might take days to a week to get your license. The resulting conditions on traffic and accident rates are exactly what you might expect. Nobody cares.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#162

Post by rusticpenn » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 7:01 AM UTC

praveen9920 wrote: post #34

blntechie wrote: post #24

I think what the OP went through is pretty much re-zoning of an agricultural land to commercial/industrial land which probably will run into similar roadblocks in Western world too? Of course, not saying it will take this long but have heard about similar bureaucracy. Small town governments in USA at least are very strict with their zoning codes and based on things what I have heard, changing the zone sometimes requi…

It is not just about red tape, it is about corruption. Govt. Employees in India join the Govt job only for "alternative" revenue ( bribes ). This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done. To take an example a simple thing like driving license takes couple of months to get if one is planning not to involve an age…

Well, These employees had to pay bribes to get that position in the first place. Its turtles all the way down.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#163

Post by renewiltord » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 7:30 AM UTC

momokoko wrote: post #49

blntechie wrote: post #24

I think what the OP went through is pretty much re-zoning of an agricultural land to commercial/industrial land which probably will run into similar roadblocks in Western world too? Of course, not saying it will take this long but have heard about similar bureaucracy. Small town governments in USA at least are very strict with their zoning codes and based on things what I have heard, changing the zone sometimes requi…

Exactly, this is a re-zoning process not “opening a manufacturing plant”. I can almost guarantee this land was purchased for significantly less because it is agricultural land as well. States have plenty of reasonable concerns about re-zoning agricultural land into commercial land. The most obvious being that if there are spills or other environmental issues it could destroy much of the agricultural land around it. N…

> States have plenty of reasonable concerns about re-zoning agricultural land into commercial land. The most obvious being that if there are spills or other environmental issues it could destroy much of the agricultural land around it.

Ironically both the Forestry Dept. and the Pollution Control Board were the fastest to certify so maybe this isn't the problem, eh?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#164

Post by renewiltord » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 7:42 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #122

de6u99er wrote: post #105

This sounds worse than Eastern Europe. My wife once had interactions with Polish authorities and the first official told her immediately what amount of bribe money will be necessary to get it done quickly, contrary to everybody involved sitting it out as long as possible. When she asked why the bribe is so high, the government employee explained to her whom of his colleagues he has to pay himself to get it done quick…

> you would have already received your approval if you were willing to pay a bribe There is a law that prohibits American citizens from bribing foreign officials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

Dude, for things like this you can't just apply Wikipedia knowledge. It's really not enough. Section 78dd–1 is what it looks like in law. Read Section 78dd–1 (b).

> (b)Exception for routine governmental action Subsections (a) and (g) shall not apply to any facilitating or expediting payment to a foreign official, political party, or party official the purpose of which is to expedite or to secure the performance of a routine governmental action by a foreign official, political party, or party official.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#165

Post by vikramkb » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 7:58 AM UTC

Have been through this process. So I know how this person feels. My simple question is with so much tech why cannot the NOCs be obtained digitally and also why can't this NOC process be time bound? Why should we spend months? If it's not rejected with valid reasons in digital format then why cannot the NOC be deemed valid? What is the use of so many tech brains in India if we can't create a simple system digitally? What political leadership is this that we have to suffer even after 73 years of independence?

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#166

Post by praveen9920 » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 8:18 AM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #68

praveen9920 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to offend you but.. this is the problem in india. Should one know someone influential to get things done honestly and ethically?

Ummm, how did you arrive at the conclusion that I am offering influence political or monetary or whatever? I am embarrassed now since I can't offer any of that :P

Haha. Probably I misunderstood

My point was that an individual should be able to conduct his business without someone handholding ( who is not stakeholder or partner or employee )

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#167

Post by praveen9920 » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 8:23 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #121

praveen9920 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just about red tape, it is about corruption. Govt. Employees in India join the Govt job only for "alternative" revenue ( bribes ). This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done. To take an example a simple thing like driving license takes couple of months to get if one is planning not to involve an age…

>> This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done That's probably why some people would block the application and even refuse bribes; they probably already have exclusive deals with agents who pay them regular bribes and will not even bother to risk accepting bribes through unproven channels. They literally monop…

Yes, worst part is unless you are inside their trust circle, you will be met with roadblocks even when money is paid. It will be even worse if you are competing with existing local player

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#168

Post by praveen9920 » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 8:25 AM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #109

praveen9920 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not just about red tape, it is about corruption. Govt. Employees in India join the Govt job only for "alternative" revenue ( bribes ). This process is usually handled by "agents" who knows how much these govt employees expect and provide "easy" services to whoever wants to get shit done. To take an example a simple thing like driving license takes couple of months to get if one is planning not to involve an age…

Apparently in PK these days government competes with agents on service and will take same money and deliver DL to your house

What about the employees themselves? Does govt pay bonus to employees based on performance? If not, they will fall back to original practices

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#169

Post by GordonS » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

jacknews wrote: post #51

Try building a factory on farmland in, say UK. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with 'starting a manufacturing unit', but everything to do with completely legitimate government land-use planning / zoning rules, etc, albeit a seemingly inefficient process. The author should have performed due diligence on that process before embarking.

In the UK, it will certainly take time to obtain planning permission (AFAIK, we don't have "zoning" as such).

But you will deal with one or two departments, and the requirements will be clear. You will not be sent on a wild goose chase across the region, sprinkling money and bribes as you go. Each department you visit will also not result in a further 3 you must visit, like some kind of bureaucratic ponzi scheme. And you will not be asked to submit forms at a website that doesn't work for weeks at a time.

Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India

#170

Post by jitendrac » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

rohan_shah wrote: post #2

Author of the article here. Do ask me if you have any questions.

hi Rohan, I am Jitendra Shah from Surat. yes there are same practice in all the part of india in government's NA approving authority. But I still think you are fortunate enough to own an agriculture land. let me tell my situation, My parents were born in Rajasthan and they do hold the agriculture land in Rajasthan hence they are de-facto farmers of India. Any farmer in India can buy agriculture land in all the states of India that is a rule. But due to corruption in Gujarat the higher authority refuse to allow out-side states' farmers from owning agriculture land. I had even filed multiple petitions which of most were just redirected to local state office to be never answered. I was born and spent all my life in Gujarat and its the karmabhoomi for me and am proud to call my self gujarati marvadi. I am waiting for the day when I can legally own the agriculture land in Gujarat as a proud Gujarati.

I wish you best of luck for your endeavor, and following you on twitter.