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Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

theguardian.com

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Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#91

Post by loosetypes »

gaukes wrote: post #2

Ceres is one of the more interesting candidates for life in our solar system. Ceres is in the habitable zone for our solar system (although just barely), it's surface temperature is -30 F (eq. to winter in Greenland), and it's detected that the water on the surface is 20% carbon by mass (though that can mean a lot of things).

Would evolutionary timelines or cycles be slower in an overall colder planet?

(Thinking of those interactive diagrams for temperature on the kinetic energy of molecules zooming around in closed space)

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#92

Post by marcusverus »

shakna wrote: post #12
nerfhammer wrote: post #5

man, so many planets have subsurface oceans, there must be a lot of species of eyeless space whales across the universe

Earth might have a subsurface ocean as well [1], though I haven't found any follow up since 2014 on that one. [1] http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1253358

>They conclude that the mantle transition zone--410 to 660 km below the Earth's surface--acts as a large reservoir of water.

Sadly there will be no eyeless space whales in our basement, given that the temperature at that depth on Earth is around 2,000° Celsius.

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#94

Post by [deleted] »

toshk wrote: post #16
gaukes wrote: post #2

Ceres is one of the more interesting candidates for life in our solar system. Ceres is in the habitable zone for our solar system (although just barely), it's surface temperature is -30 F (eq. to winter in Greenland), and it's detected that the water on the surface is 20% carbon by mass (though that can mean a lot of things).

I always wondered why we are overly focused on the conditions that created life on earth. Arguably it makes sense to see similar conditions lead to life. But do we really know enough to assume that's only way?

[deleted]

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#95

Post by interfixus »

> Ceres is the largest object in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter and has its own gravity, enabling the Nasa Dawn spacecraft to capture high-resolution images of its surface

Scratching my head. Trying as I may. But not making sense.

[insert subthread about Gell-Mann amnesia here]

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#96

Post by thaumasiotes »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #74
at_a_remove wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numerous other ideas exist for alien life, but most of them have their shortcomings. It all boils down to chemical reactions and physics. Imagine a universe of only helium. No valence electrons would be readily available, so chances are you are not going to see helium molecules. Lithium, sure, as a metal. Continue examining various smaller (and more plentiful elements). Fluorine? Well, only one slot available, so you…

Another problem with silicon is that its basic oxide (Silicon Dioxide) is a solid that is non-reactive with virtually everything. If you assume water based life, there is almost certainly going to be oxides involved, such as how CO2 is involved with earth life. And I think water based life chemistry is an extremely good bet, because alternative liquids based off of light, common elements are either only liquid at ver…

> Another problem with silicon is that its basic oxide (Silicon Dioxide) is a solid that is non-reactive with virtually everything.

I was amused once by reading an MSDS for silicon dioxide.

As I presume is required, they do list some hazards of exposure, but if you read the sheets for other substances the contrast is pretty striking. Look at the health effects listed on https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/09890.htm :

> Eye: Dust may cause mechanical irritation.

> Skin: Dust may cause mechanical irritation.

> Ingestion: May cause irritation of the digestive tract.

> Inhalation: Dust is irritating to the respiratory tract.

> Chronic: May cause cancer in humans. Prolonged exposure to respirable crystalline quartz may cause delayed lung injury/fibrosis (silicosis).

> NFPA Rating: (estimated) Health: 1; Flammability: 0; Instability: 0

So yeah, as long as you're not inhaling sand, you're fine.

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#97

Post by walrus01 »

gaukes wrote: post #2

Ceres is one of the more interesting candidates for life in our solar system. Ceres is in the habitable zone for our solar system (although just barely), it's surface temperature is -30 F (eq. to winter in Greenland), and it's detected that the water on the surface is 20% carbon by mass (though that can mean a lot of things).

Considering that there's organisms that live at ridiculous pressures, with absolutely no sunlight and at the extreme temperatures of deep sea volcanic vents, I would not be surprised at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrothermal_vent_microbial_co...

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#98

Post by mxcrossb »

interfixus wrote: post #95

> Ceres is the largest object in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter and has its own gravity, enabling the Nasa Dawn spacecraft to capture high-resolution images of its surface Scratching my head. Trying as I may. But not making sense. [insert subthread about Gell-Mann amnesia here]

I was confused by this too. I wonder if it means that the spacecraft was able to enter into its orbit and circle around taking pictures, as opposed to one pass by

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#99

Post by vmception »

ncmncm wrote: post #87
randomdude402 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the atmosphere was mostly carbon dioxide and sulfuric acid. What makes it potentially high value?

Earth-normal gravity, Earth-normal temperature, Earth-normal pressure, concentrated solar power, breathing air is buoyant, plastic and carbon fiber structural material--and breathing air and water--are convertable from atmosphere, cloud water is heavily enriched with deuterium. Way nicer than Mars. You can operate an unshielded nuke plant tethered some distance below your balloon habitat, no worries about leaks. We d…

Its also closer, and moster closer than Mars.

Re: Planet Ceres is an 'ocean world' with sea water beneath surface, mission finds

#100

Post by galori »

gus_massa wrote: post #45
stx wrote: post #36

Is this actually H2O water? I read the article but I am still unclear. I am often excited to hear that water was discovered on some planet or moon but its always a disappointment to learn that its liquid methane or some other liquid that is not actually H2O water.

The main part is that they found some type of material that is made of table salt and water https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrohalite , real table salt and real water.

So they have tables! They must have life.
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