Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth

#191

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #190

gamblor956 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had access to all of this type of research when I was a public defender, but I haven't been a PD in years. I would suggest going to your local university library and looking it up there as access to most of these studies will require expensive journal subscriptions. For your second question: there is a fair amount of research into the effects of visual and audiovisual stimuli on pedophiles and other sex offenders.…

>For your second question: there is a fair amount of research into the effects of visual and audiovisual stimuli on pedophiles and other sex offenders. I'm more just curious because I haven't seen anything (other than from the authors I've cited) on the effects of fictional (and in particular highly stylized) material on regular people, or even pedophiles specifically. Gary Young's book on The Gamer's Dilemma from 20…

Yes, to your question about stimulated demand. While most sex offenders are unable to control their urges as a matter of biology or neurology (which is why they became sex offenders in the first place), pedophiles are uniquely limited in their ability to control these urges, which is why the treatment system is focused on preventing these urges entirely (even to the point of chemical castration).

In relation to risk of re-offense (aka recidivism), access to stimulating images was found to increase the risk of recidivism dramatically, by double-digit %, and pedophiles are already one of the groups with the highest rates of recidivism (in this context, we're talking more than 50% rate of re-offending).

If you get off to sexually abusing a child, that is pedophilia, so essentially all CSA crimes are committed by pedophiles. Generally the only exceptions I can think of are where both of the "offenders" are teens engaged in consensual acts before they are old enough to legally consent.

To put it another way: access to regular porn may inflame the desires of a rapist, and they may even make him more likely to committ an offence; is this sufficient to illegalize porn for everybody? Alcohol may have the same effect, and the question still applies.

This hasn't been shown to be true. But more importantly, the converse has been shown to be true: the overwhelming majority of people can watch porn, or drink alcohol, without becoming rapists, so it is not the porn or alcohol that creates the urge to rape. In contrast, the consumption of CP has been shown to create the urge to engage in pedophilic acts in pedophiles. (Additionally, CP is also illegal because it results in actual physical harm to the child.)

Again, AFAIK nobody has done a study specifically on manga, since that's an incredibly niche market in the U.S. Studies using fictional characters in the U.S. have generally used Disney characters or similar, so if you really insist on following up on this, you should start your search with that.

Re: Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth

#192

Post by claudiawerner » Thu, Jul 30, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #191

claudiawerner wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For your second question: there is a fair amount of research into the effects of visual and audiovisual stimuli on pedophiles and other sex offenders. I'm more just curious because I haven't seen anything (other than from the authors I've cited) on the effects of fictional (and in particular highly stylized) material on regular people, or even pedophiles specifically. Gary Young's book on The Gamer's Dilemma from 20…

Yes, to your question about stimulated demand. While most sex offenders are unable to control their urges as a matter of biology or neurology (which is why they became sex offenders in the first place), pedophiles are uniquely limited in their ability to control these urges, which is why the treatment system is focused on preventing these urges entirely (even to the point of chemical castration). In relation to risk…

>If you get off to sexually abusing a child, that is pedophilia, so essentially all CSA crimes are committed by pedophiles.

The data seems to contradict this. "Estimates of preferential attraction for children among those who offend are often in the ballpark of 25% to 50%"[0]. Granted, this is talking about preferential attraction, but estimates on the percentage of men with non-preferential attraction factor in at a much higher percentage of the population than pedophiles (and others we assume are preferentially attracted). Other than this, it still seems to leave a segment of child abusers who do not enjoy their actions sexually, but for other reasons (say, power).

>This hasn't been shown to be true.

To some degree (and I suspect, to a similar degree to pedophiles) it has, see my comment here[1]. Exposure to pornography is usually shown to trigger or at least intensify feelings of sexual agression, either physical or verbal, even in non-experimental studies.

> the consumption of CP has been shown to create the urge to engage in pedophilic acts in pedophiles.

Is this true of all pedophiles generally based on a sample of the pedophile population, or those recruited to take part in such a study after being convicted of child abuse (contact or non-contact) offences? I can very easily see the fact they've been convicted as being a huge confounder here.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that CP should be legal; I just think that on the basis of the available evidence, I can't see any reason to illegalize fictional representations. I think the alcohol and regular porn comparison holds quite well. The longitudinal study data which contradicts the theory that increased availability of porn does not lead to higher rates of rape is simply unavailable for child porn, perhaps with one exception, though[2]. The link between inebriation and likelihood of sex crimes is to my knowledge undisputed, though.

[0] References here: https://www.b4uact.org/know-the-facts/behavior/

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23789827

[2] http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/2010to2014/2010-p...

Re: Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth

#193

Post by buisi » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:49 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #192

gamblor956 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, to your question about stimulated demand. While most sex offenders are unable to control their urges as a matter of biology or neurology (which is why they became sex offenders in the first place), pedophiles are uniquely limited in their ability to control these urges, which is why the treatment system is focused on preventing these urges entirely (even to the point of chemical castration). In relation to risk…

>If you get off to sexually abusing a child, that is pedophilia, so essentially all CSA crimes are committed by pedophiles. The data seems to contradict this. "Estimates of preferential attraction for children among those who offend are often in the ballpark of 25% to 50%"[0]. Granted, this is talking about preferential attraction, but estimates on the percentage of men with non-preferential attraction factor in at a…

> To some degree (and I suspect, to a similar degree to pedophiles) it has, see my comment here[1]. Exposure to pornography is usually shown to trigger or at least intensify feelings of sexual agression, either physical or verbal, even in non-experimental studies.

Do they climax or simply look at the images in an experimental lab setting?

Do they have a secondary condition? Do they have POCD?

> Is this true of all pedophiles generally based on a sample of the pedophile population, or those recruited to take part in such a study after being convicted of child abuse (contact or non-contact) offences? I can very easily see the fact they've been convicted as being a huge confounder here.

Many studies are done in a clinical setting. Someone who has self-control issues is more likely to go to a shrink for those issues than someone who does not. Other studies are done in a criminal justice setting which is similar.

Re: Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth

#194

Post by buisi » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #192

gamblor956 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, to your question about stimulated demand. While most sex offenders are unable to control their urges as a matter of biology or neurology (which is why they became sex offenders in the first place), pedophiles are uniquely limited in their ability to control these urges, which is why the treatment system is focused on preventing these urges entirely (even to the point of chemical castration). In relation to risk…

>If you get off to sexually abusing a child, that is pedophilia, so essentially all CSA crimes are committed by pedophiles. The data seems to contradict this. "Estimates of preferential attraction for children among those who offend are often in the ballpark of 25% to 50%"[0]. Granted, this is talking about preferential attraction, but estimates on the percentage of men with non-preferential attraction factor in at a…

> I'm not arguing that CP should be legal

It is questionable whether possession should be illegal. It incentivizes people to cover up crimes as they themselves may be held complicit otherwise. It incentivizes law enforcement to disrupt support / prevention efforts as anything someone could say could be taken in evidence.

This won't be a popular notion, admittedly. But it is an important elephant to address.

Re: Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth

#195

Post by buisi » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 2:38 AM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #191

claudiawerner wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For your second question: there is a fair amount of research into the effects of visual and audiovisual stimuli on pedophiles and other sex offenders. I'm more just curious because I haven't seen anything (other than from the authors I've cited) on the effects of fictional (and in particular highly stylized) material on regular people, or even pedophiles specifically. Gary Young's book on The Gamer's Dilemma from 20…

Yes, to your question about stimulated demand. While most sex offenders are unable to control their urges as a matter of biology or neurology (which is why they became sex offenders in the first place), pedophiles are uniquely limited in their ability to control these urges, which is why the treatment system is focused on preventing these urges entirely (even to the point of chemical castration). In relation to risk…

Do they count technical violations of the sex offenders registry or probation as re-offending? Some statistics do.

Some of the conditions imposed on sex offenders are so harsh they make them homeless. There is simply no housing a certain distance away from a school or a park. Overly harsh restrictions have been proven to not prevent crime and may well increase it by making it difficult to integrate back into society.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/opinion/when-junk-science... It was noted in an article written by the New York Times a few years ago that many statistics for sex offenders in general are grossly exaggerated.

Re: Facebook has blocked Dreamwidth

#196

Post by buisi » Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 3:06 AM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #192

gamblor956 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, to your question about stimulated demand. While most sex offenders are unable to control their urges as a matter of biology or neurology (which is why they became sex offenders in the first place), pedophiles are uniquely limited in their ability to control these urges, which is why the treatment system is focused on preventing these urges entirely (even to the point of chemical castration). In relation to risk…

>If you get off to sexually abusing a child, that is pedophilia, so essentially all CSA crimes are committed by pedophiles. The data seems to contradict this. "Estimates of preferential attraction for children among those who offend are often in the ballpark of 25% to 50%"[0]. Granted, this is talking about preferential attraction, but estimates on the percentage of men with non-preferential attraction factor in at a…

There are many reasons a non-pedophile might do it. Someone who is hypersexual might see them as the only option available to them. They are easy for them to overpower too unlike someone older.