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Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
411–420 of 781 posts
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that it's Uber's talking point doesn't make it any less true. If rideshare drivers are employees, then there's going to be fixed overhead costs of hiring employees and drivers will not be able to set their own hours. The rideshare company would not recoup the costs of benefits for drivers that drive less than a certain number of hours per month, and so drivers would have to be required to work at least that…
Employees can set their own hours. White collar employees do it all the time... It's up to the employer what freedoms they allow. Generally, like with existing businesses, it would probably utilize a shift assignment system, where employees get assigned shifts but can swap them with other employees.
The aforementioned drivers opting to work 10 hours a week, what are their options?
The way I see it, as employees, their employers will either give them benefits for 10 hour work, or force them to work 40 hours.
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#413It strikes me that these articles are always biased in the direction of the benefits of being an employee. I have several friends that actively choose to be contractors because they prefer the (legally protected) flexibility to decide their own hours, among other things. It's a personal decision, and there are upsides and downsides in both directions. Sure - some (non-insignificant) portion of Uber and Lyft drivers w…
What legal protections? Most "contractors" are actually employed by their own personal shell companies, specifically because there is no meaningful protection for contractors. No protection from IRS, from customers, from law enforcement, from health insurers, from COVID. But you get to make your own hours, and work with no bosses no homework no bedtimes no rules, and that's cool I guess.
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is just untrue. Drivers are free to choose when they want to drive.
Sure, but Uber varies rates so they want to drive when Uber needs them.
How is that any different from any other contracting job. If I'm a designer a client may pay me more to finish a job now rather than in 10 days.
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I had a dispatch company that phoned/radioed possible drivers in some round robin order, if driver number 4 always tends to decline I would stop wasting my time and my rider's time in contacting him again, after a point
Sure, but in this example the situation only happens because the dispatcher controls all the prices, if the drivers could set their own prices then they would have no reason to decline.
Economically the result is identical. The driver “sets their rate” above the market rate and drivers with lower rates get all the rides.
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
They do, though. https://help.uber.com/driving-and-delivering/article/what-ar... https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013077708-Accepta...
Did you even read these? Give me a single line that supports your assertion here.
To clarify,
"Rating" is generally accepted as the "star rating" or some other statistics that users will see. Yes your "acceptance rate" will be affected, but this is a vanity metric that is secret to the driver => It is irrelevant.
There is no mention of deplatforming in any of these articles.
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is that weird? If the rules vary by jurisdiction, I expect compliance to follow suit. I suspect that you're implying some sort of objective universal metaphysical state of "being an employee" or "being a contractor", but that's pretty clearly false.
> If the rules vary by jurisdiction They don't. The distinction between a contractor[1] and employee[2] has a broad rule at the federal level[3]. Contractors decide their rates and how they're paid, and they determine how, when and where their work is done. People who work for Uber outside of a part of a single state can't set their rates or how they're paid, nor can they determine how or where their work is done bec…
California imposes a legal standard called the “ABC” test, which not all States apply.
“States will vary on exactly what parts of the test they apply and when they apply the test to workers. In September 2019, California put into place Assembly Bill 5, which found that a worker could only be an independent contractor if they met each of these three factors...”
https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-the-abc-test-for-indep...
1) The worker is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the work's performance, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
2) The worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity's business.
3) The worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed.
IANAL but this ABC test reads to me as markedly different from the typical IRS “balance of factors” tests and significantly narrows the scope of “independent contractor”.
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Gig platforms take that power away. Pretty sure drivers have to "accept" a ride, isn't that agreeing to a rate?
If you don't accept nearly every ride, you are kicked off the platform...
Not true - you can get logged out for inactivity, but you will never get banned or "fired"
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being an independent contractor is about more than "choosing your own hours". you can be an employee and have flexible hours. You can be a contractor and have fixed hours. There are plenty of examples of both in the tech industry.
Hmm, maybe I just don't know enough people, but I don't know any employee (with benefits and such) that can just stop working for their company for 12 months with no prior notice, and then pick it back up whenever. And infinite variations on that refrain. I also don't know any employee who gets paid money by the customer to do a job, of which a small portion is taken by the company. For every "employee" I know, it wo…
Uber gets paid, not the driver. The money does not drop directly into the driver's bank account. The driver cannot decide to change his rate or charge extra if the customer pukes in the car.
And besides, Getting a cut of your sales and it's called commission.
Independence goes much further - can the driver assign someone else to do the job?
Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees
#420It strikes me that these articles are always biased in the direction of the benefits of being an employee. I have several friends that actively choose to be contractors because they prefer the (legally protected) flexibility to decide their own hours, among other things. It's a personal decision, and there are upsides and downsides in both directions. Sure - some (non-insignificant) portion of Uber and Lyft drivers w…
I'm an on-and-off Uber driver. It's a great gig to supplement my income. As someone who has many limitations from a disability, it's almost impossible to find a job that classifies me as an employee. I just don't get hired. And I need to take a break when I need to take a break. I can't have someone dictating my hours for me.
In my city, which fortunately is not in California, being classified as an Uber employee would destroy my 10-20 hour weeks at $20-$30/hour. The key is to work during busy times and for $30+/hour you generally have to be entertaining to get tips (which I have tons of fun doing). If you work during slow times, then it's $10/hour or less.
Busy times are too nuanced for a manager to determine when the best time to work is.
And I don't want to subsidize other drivers with my hard work because they don't want to do the market research to know when to drive.
Maybe Uber can keep all the incentives the same (like surge) and classify drivers as employees, but I doubt it.