I think there needs to be regulation. You can't just build whatever you want on an agricultural land even if you own it. Lets say someone builds a Chemical factory, what would the neighboring land owners or residents do if it starts polluting the land?
I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
151–160 of 190 posts
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your article seems to imply that the process is inordinately difficult in India, but I'd challenge you to locate a country/jurisdiction that wouldn't put you through a rigorous process to convert a plot of agriculturally zoned land into a factory. Maybe Shenzhen? But that's hardly agricultural anymore from what I've heard. I imagine you'll find few, and I suspect the infrastructure will be very poor in those places.…
I got the impression that the complaint was more about the bribes and all than the regulations meant to protect the land
I agree that the bribes are horrendous. But they're also what you get from a system that incentivizes corruption. You can't expect Indian bureaucracy to be like German bureaucracy, because the incentives are so different for the players at ground level.
The alternative is to pay public servants well and charge a very large fee for the permits to finance that. Then, deal corruption on top of that without impunity.
However, the culture itself has to support that. The culture of demanding bribes for documents shows that there's a parallel market in play to which the bureaucratic system has been subverted.
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#153Okay, I'll assume either negligence or innocence for the OP; but one important point is: Is there a lack of industrial zoned land in that region? Why didn't you buy or lease an industrial area to build whatever you are going to build. Where I live, industrial lands run at 5-10 times the price of an agricultural land. So someone might justify going through the lengthy process (and bribe officials along the way) becaus…
Almost all land in India is agricultural land.
There's very little industrial land. And all of that is used.
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#154TBH, apart from the bribes it mostly sounds pretty similar to the UK. Perhaps this person would have had an easier time if they had hired a professional to deal with it for them. I often visit sites with potential clients and I have to tell them sorry, I can try, but you will pay a lot of fees to me and the local government and you will likely never get permission to build here. Off the top of my head, here are some…
Wow! That's a lot of stuff.
And I agree that these things need to be done. And I am not against it if the people there follow the procedure and do the things that are needed to be done.
But what if one of the people from the government doing the survey/inspection just refuses to sign the paper! It's just crap. You can't complain to anyone nor can you do anything else. You're just stuck.
That's where my problem lies.
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got the impression that the complaint was more about the bribes and all than the regulations meant to protect the land
I agree that the bribes are horrendous. But they're also what you get from a system that incentivizes corruption. You can't expect Indian bureaucracy to be like German bureaucracy, because the incentives are so different for the players at ground level. The alternative is to pay public servants well and charge a very large fee for the permits to finance that. Then, deal corruption on top of that without impunity. How…
Public servants are paid well(if they get paid in time, some incompetent departments are failing their employees) along with amenities. So Bribery in india is mostly a cultural problem.
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#156TBH, apart from the bribes it mostly sounds pretty similar to the UK. Perhaps this person would have had an easier time if they had hired a professional to deal with it for them. I often visit sites with potential clients and I have to tell them sorry, I can try, but you will pay a lot of fees to me and the local government and you will likely never get permission to build here. Off the top of my head, here are some…
Wow! That's a lot of stuff. And I agree that these things need to be done. And I am not against it if the people there follow the procedure and do the things that are needed to be done. But what if one of the people from the government doing the survey/inspection just refuses to sign the paper! It's just crap. You can't complain to anyone nor can you do anything else. You're just stuck. That's where my problem lies.
There’s various rights of appeal, they are very slow. Also any government decision can be challenged by a judicial review in the U.K although it would be very expensive and would take years. In India, if no-one signs the paper, can you take it to court? I suppose that would take a long time too?
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#157I am an indian. I dont have any problems with filling out forms, or providing documents. As long as the process is well documented. But in india it doesnt work that way.
Even in the age of computers, some departments are printing forms using ink from the middle ages on paper from the egyptians. You require a prime lens attached to your eyes to decipher the 7point font on the form.
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#158When both the Talathi and Circle Officer denied, all I thought was "why didn't you pay them". That's why I think relying on agents who handle the bureaucracy and know which palms to grease are worth their weight in gold in developing countries.
I think during our life time we'll see India massively improve in this area. They've already made so much progress over the past 20 years, it's a really exciting country to watch.
They need more coverage in Western media like this though. Similar with China. An effective form of change is shaming the department or process, and if it's covered in Western media - at least this is true of India, it often makes local news. (See Hassan Minaj's coverage on Modi.)
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#159Misleading title ! The author basically tried to rezone agricultural land into industrial land.
Re: I tried starting a manufacturing unit in India
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that the bribes are horrendous. But they're also what you get from a system that incentivizes corruption. You can't expect Indian bureaucracy to be like German bureaucracy, because the incentives are so different for the players at ground level. The alternative is to pay public servants well and charge a very large fee for the permits to finance that. Then, deal corruption on top of that without impunity. How…
Public servants are paid well(if they get paid in time, some incompetent departments are failing their employees) along with amenities. So Bribery in india is mostly a cultural problem.
> Public servants are paid well
> So Bribery in india is mostly a cultural problem.
Apparently not well enough. When it's a few here and there you can argue that it's a character issue. When it's pervasive, there's a problem with the incentive structure.
I also wouldn't be so quick to condemn the culture, and I'm not so sure you can disentangle the cultural from the economic anyway.