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Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

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Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#31

Post by jakelazaroff »

saagarjha wrote: post #29
simias wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been coding for almost 20 years now, I definitely saw many changes in that time. Languages like Java and C# became huge, scripting languages like Python or JavaScript became not-just-scripting-languages. C went from "The English of programing languages" to "The Latin of programing languages". Then you have a newer generation starting to take over some niches with the likes of Go, Rust and a few others. If anythi…

> C went from "The English of programing languages" to "The Latin of programing languages". There's still a huge amount of development being done in C. > If anything what bothers me is not the lack of innovation in programming languages per se but the relative lack of innovation in program representation. One of the benefits of using text is you get a huge number of tools that work with it, without the things that ar…

> One of the benefits of using text is you get a huge number of tools that work with it, without the things that are par for the course these days like vendor lock-in.

That’s true, but you can store code in flat text files even if you don’t represent or manipulate it as plain text.

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#32

Post by the_af »

simias wrote: post #7
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #2

> We built Repl.it to make it easy to explore and learn languages and programming paradigms. We were, however, surprised by how slow-moving the programming language space seems to be. Given how fast software is growing, shouldn’t we see more innovation in programming languages? Isn't this like saying: "the construction industry is growing fast, how come there are no new hammers being invented every other week?" I, to…

I've been coding for almost 20 years now, I definitely saw many changes in that time. Languages like Java and C# became huge, scripting languages like Python or JavaScript became not-just-scripting-languages. C went from "The English of programing languages" to "The Latin of programing languages". Then you have a newer generation starting to take over some niches with the likes of Go, Rust and a few others. If anythi…

> We have high res monitors with incredible graphical capabilities but we still mostly just represent code as flat text files

I think the key issue here is that flat text files remain an universal standard, easily handled with commodity tools and editors, often bundled with the OS itself.

Once in a while someone wants to revolutionize code representation (like Light Table, which you mentioned). "What if we represented code as a... flowchart, a graph of nodes, a city, a pie chart, a mind map, $YOUR_NOVEL_IDEA_HERE? Wouldn't that be great and take advantage of current hardware to the fullest?"

It turns out it's really hard to beat good old flat text at convenience and interoperability with standard tools.

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#33

Post by chemeng »

cuddlybacon wrote: post #15
ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #2

> We built Repl.it to make it easy to explore and learn languages and programming paradigms. We were, however, surprised by how slow-moving the programming language space seems to be. Given how fast software is growing, shouldn’t we see more innovation in programming languages? Isn't this like saying: "the construction industry is growing fast, how come there are no new hammers being invented every other week?" I, to…

From the intro page: > One answer could be that programmers are not that interested in thinking about languages. Or that our languages today are sufficient and everyone is happy. But spend a few minutes on any programming forum, and it’ll become clear that a lack of enthusiasm and opinions on languages could not be the reason why we don’t see more programming languages. Are construction workers constantly complaining…

Yes, they absolutely were, and now they/we have nailguns. Screwdrivers became cordless drills, wrenches became impact drivers, etc. Tools and process on construction sites today look very different than they did even 30 years ago. (And that’s after millennia of “hammers”.)

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#34

Post by dom96 »

amasad wrote: post #26
eatonphil wrote: post #22

There's a surprisingly big list of languages not supported, just off the top of my head: Standard ML, OCaml, Rebol, Elm, PureScript, Racket, Lisp-flavored Erlang, Common Lisp, Zig, Perl 5. Most of these even have JavaScript targets already. Edit: OCaml is supported through Reason Node.js on BuckleScript.

I agree they should be there. We've been more focused more on vertical feature work than horizontal. But we're hiring a language hacker if anyone wants to help us get more language and tooling support https://repl.it/@util/jerbs#open-positions/language_hacker.t...

> currently only open to +/-4 hours from Pacific time zone

Any ETA on easing this requirement? :)

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#35

Post by rhc2104 »

amasad wrote: post #28
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repl.it is an amazing idea, but it's infuriating to use. No syntax highlighting in the REPL, laaaaaag everywhere, hardly any version control… It's useful for performing a 30 second Python interaction on machines without Python installed, but that 30 seconds becomes 3 minutes because Repl.it is so clunky. I tried to log in to check whether things had improved, but apparently I need Google's permission to do so now? An…

> Repl.it is an amazing idea, but it's infuriating to use. No syntax highlighting in the REPL, laaaaaag everywhere, hardly any version control… It's useful for performing a 30 second Python interaction on machines without Python installed, but that 30 seconds becomes 3 minutes because Repl.it is so clunky. We've improved performance a lot and we'll keep working on it. I just timed it and it took me 5 seconds to start…

My interpretation of the Google comment is that if you block all JavaScript from Google, Repl.it does not work. Haven’t tried it myself though.

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#36

Post by amasad »

dom96 wrote: post #34
amasad wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree they should be there. We've been more focused more on vertical feature work than horizontal. But we're hiring a language hacker if anyone wants to help us get more language and tooling support https://repl.it/@util/jerbs#open-positions/language_hacker.t...

> currently only open to +/-4 hours from Pacific time zone Any ETA on easing this requirement? :)

Probably in the next few months. Remote is working well and we'll probably do more timezones before the end of the year.

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#37

Post by tuatoru »

chemeng wrote: post #33
cuddlybacon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the intro page: > One answer could be that programmers are not that interested in thinking about languages. Or that our languages today are sufficient and everyone is happy. But spend a few minutes on any programming forum, and it’ll become clear that a lack of enthusiasm and opinions on languages could not be the reason why we don’t see more programming languages. Are construction workers constantly complaining…

Yes, they absolutely were, and now they/we have nailguns. Screwdrivers became cordless drills, wrenches became impact drivers, etc. Tools and process on construction sites today look very different than they did even 30 years ago. (And that’s after millennia of “hammers”.)

OK, there has been incremental progress in individual tools.

But that's like cutting down visual noise in text files, e.g. with python or haskell, and editors with autocomplete, and faster find tools and version control.

Building is in the early stages of automation, with large chunks pre-assembled in factories (with joinery, wiring, plumbing, etc. all installed), and then fixed together on site. The factories are becoming more automated as well.

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#38

Post by pera »

josefrichter wrote: post #25

Elixir, Clojure, Rust, Go, Haskell, Elm, TypeScript, Nim, Crystal, Swift, Kotlin, Dart, Gleam,… – there’s so much new(ish) stuff it’s hard to keep up actually, isn’t there? Not complaining, quite the opposite.

(Haskell is 30 years old :)

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#39

Post by juped »

amasad wrote: post #28
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Repl.it is an amazing idea, but it's infuriating to use. No syntax highlighting in the REPL, laaaaaag everywhere, hardly any version control… It's useful for performing a 30 second Python interaction on machines without Python installed, but that 30 seconds becomes 3 minutes because Repl.it is so clunky. I tried to log in to check whether things had improved, but apparently I need Google's permission to do so now? An…

> Repl.it is an amazing idea, but it's infuriating to use. No syntax highlighting in the REPL, laaaaaag everywhere, hardly any version control… It's useful for performing a 30 second Python interaction on machines without Python installed, but that 30 seconds becomes 3 minutes because Repl.it is so clunky. We've improved performance a lot and we'll keep working on it. I just timed it and it took me 5 seconds to start…

I'm more interested in your response to the paragraph you conspicuously skipped:

> Anyway, version control is there now, and you can edit existing Git repos! Except it's actually GitHub, not Git, so I can't use it for any of my existing projects, including my programming language…

Re: Kicking Off the Repl.it Programming Language Jam

#40

Post by simias »

saagarjha wrote: post #29
simias wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been coding for almost 20 years now, I definitely saw many changes in that time. Languages like Java and C# became huge, scripting languages like Python or JavaScript became not-just-scripting-languages. C went from "The English of programing languages" to "The Latin of programing languages". Then you have a newer generation starting to take over some niches with the likes of Go, Rust and a few others. If anythi…

> C went from "The English of programing languages" to "The Latin of programing languages". There's still a huge amount of development being done in C. > If anything what bothers me is not the lack of innovation in programming languages per se but the relative lack of innovation in program representation. One of the benefits of using text is you get a huge number of tools that work with it, without the things that ar…

>There's still a huge amount of development being done in C.

I know, I do some of it! My point was more that 20 years ago in my experience you couldn't call yourself a coder if you didn't know some C. Nowadays I find that most novel coders know about it but can't really write it "fluently".

Many people still know, study and even use it, but it's not quite as ubiquitous as it once was.

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