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Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

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Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#11
post #2

> Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers What would prevent Uber and Lyft from continuing to let employee drivers set their own hours?

Because benefits like healthcare are gated on the number of hours worked. Uber isn't going to (and can't possibly afford to) pay healthcare for someone who drives 2 hours a week.

Sounds like something universal health care could fix. It seems crazy that access to health care is connected to your employment status.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#12
post #3

"Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers" Doesn't this lawsuit prove otherwise?

This lawsuit isn’t being filed by drivers, according to the article it’s being filed by “the California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, along with city attorneys of Los Angeles, San Francisco, and San Diego”.

I mean drivers may or may not prefer freelancing, and certainly Uber will say whatever supports their case, but I don’t think the State suing Uber proves what drivers want in any way.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#13

This is an example of regulation getting in the way of innovation again. It’s like they want the medallion taxi system again.

Regulation, in general, exists primarily as a response to exploitation.

If drivers felt they were getting paid equitably, had fair dispute resolution, had access to benefits, etc., there wouldn't be a need for this.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#15
post #2

> Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers What would prevent Uber and Lyft from continuing to let employee drivers set their own hours?

Because benefits like healthcare are gated on the number of hours worked. Uber isn't going to (and can't possibly afford to) pay healthcare for someone who drives 2 hours a week.

That's not a reason why Lyft and Uber couldn't just reclassify everyone. That's a consequence of the reclassification, but that's a distinction those companies don't want to make because they'd prefer their drivers be confused.

Even if you drove 2 hours a week, there's still 1 reason to prefer being an employee over a contractor: Minimum wage. Uber drivers might only make peanuts once you factor in gas, car payments, and all the time they wait between rides. At least an employee driving 2 hours a week will get a fair paycheck.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#16
post #7

It strikes me that these articles are always biased in the direction of the benefits of being an employee. I have several friends that actively choose to be contractors because they prefer the (legally protected) flexibility to decide their own hours, among other things. It's a personal decision, and there are upsides and downsides in both directions. Sure - some (non-insignificant) portion of Uber and Lyft drivers w…

You’re not missing anything. There is a populist slant to one specific outcome that doesn't factor in the populace itself.

The most marginalized and desperate gain more from employment structure.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#17
post #7

It strikes me that these articles are always biased in the direction of the benefits of being an employee. I have several friends that actively choose to be contractors because they prefer the (legally protected) flexibility to decide their own hours, among other things. It's a personal decision, and there are upsides and downsides in both directions. Sure - some (non-insignificant) portion of Uber and Lyft drivers w…

I think the core issue as to why employeeship is favored is that those folks that want the freedom of contracting have more personal power and are less disadvantaged compared to the employer. If you are choosing to favor the flexibility of your own hours over other work benefits then you have a much more secure source of income than a lot of working Americans. I think that ensuring that those poorest off have the ability to keep themselves above water is vital - and while I think everyone should be able to better control their work-life balance we live in a society where that isn't valued, so I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#18
The relevant statute:[0]

2750.3. (a) (1) For purposes of the provisions of this code and the Unemployment Insurance Code, and for the wage orders of the Industrial Welfare Commission, a person providing labor or services for remuneration shall be considered an employee rather than an independent contractor unless the hiring entity demonstrates that all of the following conditions are satisfied: (A) The person is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact. (B) The person performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business. (C) The person is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.

[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#19
post #2

> Uber and Lyft say drivers prefer the flexibility of working as freelancers What would prevent Uber and Lyft from continuing to let employee drivers set their own hours?

Nothing, but since now they have the added cost of health insurance, minimal wage, etc, it would make more sense for them to arrange pre-set shifts for the drivers to optimize for supply/demand based on time of the day. Some drivers would like that arrangement, especially if that's their full time job. But some drivers who do this for supplemental income may not be able to meet the demand of the new fixed schedule se…

I think Uber & Lyft are just using flexible hours as a red-herring. They certainly can offer flexible hours to full time employees - no where does it say "Americans shalt work from nine until five so sayeth we the founders". They're just griping that they need to start paying benefits.

Re: Uber and Lyft ordered by California judge to classify drivers as employees

#20
It seems inevitable that the government will make reactionary, uninformed decisions. The question is, how do we revert to normal (a freer market) and begin to teach those in power some basic economics lessons? I'm not hopeful that an op-ed by Uber's CEO will help. Perhaps it needs to look more like a grass-roots movement.
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