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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#171

Post by dqpb »

ffggvv wrote: post #100
knzhou wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of comment that makes me know there's no hope for HN. The color of your skin has bought you a lot. When you were a kid, my parents were making a dollar a day. When your parents were kids, my grandparents were facing famine. Now, finally, for the first time in all of modern history, a large group of non-white people has escaped crushing poverty. They're not rich by any means. You'd still be richer tha…

[flagged]

Judging by the downvotes, HN'ers seem to really dislike any mention of the Uighurs.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#172

Post by throwaway1yf »

knzhou wrote: post #119
Reelin wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you sink to the 90th percentile of privilege from the 99th, you'll become a "second class human" That isn't what the person you're responding to said at all. They were observing the discrimination against those who are not Han in China and extrapolating that it would apply to them as well in a China-centric world. They don't want to be discriminated against. That's all that's being said. (Well also they're sayin…

The "discrimination" they fear is no longer automatically being worshipped the second they step foot in a non-Western country, for being the richest guy in every room. In other words, what they actually fear is dropping from 99th percentile to 90th, and they think that possibility is worth starting World War III over. That attitude is typical, and precisely why people in China find the West so unconvincing.

> In other words, what they actually fear is dropping from 99th percentile to 90th, and they think that possibility is worth starting World War III over.

Classic siege mentality. First assume OP is white and rich, then accuse the West hindering China from getting powerful while OP is focusing on human rights and equity. To be frank your argument is no better than common cliches from Wumao and Xiaofenhong.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#173

Post by consultanturnot »

throwaway-semi wrote: post #36

Why are we empowering this regime? Shouldn't we force companies like Apple to make a statement of why they manufacture their goods in China? Apple is happy make a statement about BLM - it is cheap, doesn't cost them anything. But when it comes to things that actually harm profits and challenge shareholder responsibilities, they stay mum. We need to force Apple (and other giant corporations) to speak up about atrociti…

I cannot sensibly speak to each of your points, and I am not an Apple apologist, but from my basic, and possibly misinformed understanding Apple is starting to move ex-China:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/the-i-in-...

July 2020.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#174

Post by knzhou »

Reelin wrote: post #169
knzhou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original commenter professed a fear of what that would look like for outsiders in a China-centric world. Yes, and for the third time now: my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better than what 90% of the world (i.e. everybody non-white) faces today. The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go fro…

> my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better So we shouldn't worry about something bad because worse has happened before? > The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. You're making things up again. OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. (Also y…

> OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals.

Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case. The average yearly income in China is not even half what a minimum wage worker gets in the US! And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#175

Post by Aunche »

z3t111 wrote: post #151
Aunche wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike the US, China hasn't been interested in exporting its form of government since the Cold War. If anything, they'd prefer if their rivals stayed more democratic and free, so it's easier to make money and spread propaganda there. Also keep in mind that China is making way more enemies than friends these days, so there is no way the world is going to be China-centric to the extent that you're worried about.

"If anything, they'd prefer if their rivals stayed more democratic and free, so it's easier to make money and spread propaganda there." We see no evidence for that. In fact, that's part of their current propaganda as well, if you read their news.

See their reactions to the BLM protests and banning of TikTok in India and the US. Of course they'll tell their citizens that their government is the best and other countries should copy that.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#176

Post by boomboomsubban »

throwaway-semi wrote: post #36

Why are we empowering this regime? Shouldn't we force companies like Apple to make a statement of why they manufacture their goods in China? Apple is happy make a statement about BLM - it is cheap, doesn't cost them anything. But when it comes to things that actually harm profits and challenge shareholder responsibilities, they stay mum. We need to force Apple (and other giant corporations) to speak up about atrociti…

>Opens with strong statements about how Apple supports democracy and open culture, how they appreciate people's voices and ability to think with liberty, how they inspire great people when government is of the people, by the people and for the people.

Now imagine five million Chinese hearing they now have lost their job because Apple "appreciates their voice." (first result for "Apple created jobs in China," I did not verify the number) I'm sure their reaction will be to cry out for democracy.

Meanwhile, Apple will undoubtedly move their operations to one of the many democracies that also have a terrible human rights record.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#177

Post by Reelin »

knzhou wrote: post #174
Reelin wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my point is that the absolute worst-case scenario for the original commenter is still miles better So we shouldn't worry about something bad because worse has happened before? > The worst-case scenario in OP's book is that China joins the ranks of first world countries, which then go from being 100% white to 90%. You're making things up again. OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. (Also y…

> OP described living in a China-centric world, not one of equals. Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case. The average yearly income in China is not even half what a minimum wage worker gets in the US! And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work.

> Yes, but there's no evidence to suggest this will be the case.

Agreed, at least to the extent that I don't see a way to meaningfully predict that sort of outcome one way or the other.

> And yet OP thinks China will promptly take over the world. That's yellow peril at work.

On the contrary, that's just someone whose looked at recent economic trends and population statistics extrapolating from them intuitively.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#178

Post by onion2k »

MattGaiser wrote: post #82
throwaway-semi wrote: post #36

Why are we empowering this regime? Shouldn't we force companies like Apple to make a statement of why they manufacture their goods in China? Apple is happy make a statement about BLM - it is cheap, doesn't cost them anything. But when it comes to things that actually harm profits and challenge shareholder responsibilities, they stay mum. We need to force Apple (and other giant corporations) to speak up about atrociti…

Isn't Apple moving to India? https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/08/03/six-apple-product... I suspect that Apple is moving away from China, but the reality is that doing so takes time.

That article actually states "Apple manufacturing partners" are opening factories in India. In other words, Apple are continuing to work with Chinese companies, and the Chinese companies are extending their reach outside of China. In no way is that Apple moving away from China.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#179

Post by abc-xyz »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #125
actuator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your sentiment on this. Among all the big tech, Apple is the only one which has a significant foothold in China and can possibly have an impact. But they have failed to live upto the ideals they speak about when it comes to earning easy money. BLM is easy to speak about and acts as good marketing for them. At least at one point Google stood up for its ideals and quit Search in PRC, which I highly respect. Wit…

> BLM is easy to speak about and acts as good marketing for them. Considering a good chunk of the US population (15-30%?) is vocally "anti-BLM" - it is somewhat ballsy for a high-profile company to wear pro-BLM in their corporate messaging - I'm sure we've all seen people on Facebook vow to boycott Apple or other "liberal" organizations.

These boycotts have limited impact, or rather, their impact can be explained away by blaming other factors (see Blizzard, Disney, etc). This makes it a lot easier for companies to engage in this political marketing (lgbtq+/blm/etc). The reason they’re afraid to voice support for democracy in Hong Kong or human rights in a China, is not because they fear the Chinese people will individually boycott them, but rather that the CCP will block their access to the entire market.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#180

Post by jeswin »

ssalazar wrote: post #152
jessaustin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any firm in history has ever been rich enough to weather a bit of a business setback, surely Apple would be?

Certainly, but considering how much of their business is hardware manufactured in China, it would destroy basically every corporate performance metric their executive team has for some time and this is ultimately how their bread is buttered. Hardware manufacturing at that scale and sophistication is an intricate dance of suppliers, technology integration, and management, one that Apple has mastered- losing this and h…

> it would destroy basically every corporate performance metric their executive team has for some time and this is ultimately how their bread is buttered.

Interesting how Microsoft's President called for a Hippocratic oath for engineers, while dodging the real problem - decisions which have real impact are made by executives keen on maximizing bonuses.

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