Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments • Hacker News Board

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#241

Post by vinay427 » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:39 AM UTC

endogui wrote: post #75

throw0101a wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> […] a national ID which I am more against the more I hear about […] The US already has a de facto one AFAICT: the Social Security Number (SSN). Unique to every individual, assigned from birth (or whenever applied for), and which never changes for the life of the person until they die. > Many countries issued such numbers for a singular purpose, but over time, they become a de facto national identification number. F…

The SSN is not an ID but a number: anyone with your number can claim to be you for the purposes of transactions. The number is only tied to name and birthdate, maybe address if you are of the age to pay taxes. This enables a lot of fraud: I once saw someone apply for a rewards (credit) card in a US store with SSN and no photo ID ("Oh I left my drivers license at home, could you take a student ID?") Not sure how Europ…

> This enables a lot of fraud: I once saw someone apply for a rewards (credit) card in a US store with SSN and no photo ID ("Oh I left my drivers license at home, could you take a student ID?")

They could have also just done it online in the US and not needed any photo ID to begin with.

As an aside, I assume the student ID had a photo on it, although accepting it begs the question of whether the teller is able to distinguish authentic and fake ones, although this is a problem for obscure state IDs as well.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#242

Post by blahedo » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:42 AM UTC

Nearly two decades ago, in 2002, I remember being appalled at how slow money transfer worked. If I deposited my paycheck at my bank, it could take two or three days before that money was available (and my bank compounded the sin by including the amount in the "total" for my account but not all of that money "in" my account was actually "available"). In late '02 I was so irritated by this[0] that I actually started cashing my paychecks at the issuing bank (which was across the street from the building where I worked) and walking the money to my own bank two blocks away and depositing it. Cash deposits were, I believe by federal law, immediately available.

Even then, there was no excuse why physically walking cash from one place to another, with in-person interactions at both ends, should have been faster than a direct electronic transfer, but it was, by a factor of something like 150. Improved electronic infrastructure has been a LONG time coming.

[0]The final straw was the time I deposited a check at the bank, then wrote a check on that money, put it in an envelope and mailed it, and the check still bounced. It still kind of boggles my mind that the system was that slow, although I kind of assume there was a certain amount of bank-being-gougy in there too.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#243

Post by bjohnson225 » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:43 AM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #101

pfundstein wrote: post #24

Nearly all first world countries enjoy instant payments at the point of sale and person to person. It boggles my mind that it has taken this long and a pandemic to even set the gears in motion, all while battling ridiculous levels of cheque and credit card fraud.

As a general rule, the US is terrible at a lot of first-world things for a good reason: because it was the first (or close). We have crappy old subways, airports, bridges, skyscrapers, and so on... because we built them early, versions 1.0. And they stuck around. Other countries had the luxuries of building their versions decades later, when the technology was 2.0 and 3.0 and so on. So the US is stuck with both old a…

Europe has many old subways and bridges too and like in the US they can be difficult to upgrade for cost reasons. (E.g. The London Underground still lacks air con on some lines because of narrow tunnels; there are parts of the network built with asbestos in the tunnels. In both cases fixing it would require closing the line and rebuilding the tunnel, so it doesn’t happen)

That’s not true in banking though where many upgrades are software based and not so disruptive/expensive. The UK, and presumably other countries, did not start from the systems we have today - we moved from signatures to chip & pin, and from checks to bank transfers to instant bank transfers. My parents would write checks all the time when I was growing up, but I’m in my late 20s and have never written one in my life.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#244

Post by m463 » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:46 AM UTC

blahedo wrote: post #242

Nearly two decades ago, in 2002, I remember being appalled at how slow money transfer worked. If I deposited my paycheck at my bank, it could take two or three days before that money was available (and my bank compounded the sin by including the amount in the "total" for my account but not all of that money "in" my account was actually "available"). In late '02 I was so irritated by this[0] that I actually started ca…

I remember when I was younger hearing about "check kiting" which appeared to be the exact opposite of your bounced check ... somehow you could turn the slow money transfer around and build up a huge balance by playing with the delays.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#245

Post by vinay427 » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:50 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #121

kelnos wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GOP doesn't want more people voting; they hang onto power mainly through gerrymandering and various voter suppression measures.

The GOP doesn't want more people voting; they hang onto power mainly through gerrymandering and various voter suppression measures. If you think this is unique to the GOP, you missed the last century of politics in Chicago.

They weren't saying it was unique to the GOP, and your comment almost makes it sound like the two major parties are equivalent in this respect. At a national level, I think their point stands. I find this distinction actually relevant here given the current renewed interest in a higher nationwide standard for voting accessibility and representation. Also, consider that the states with independent redistricting commissions to mitigate or prevent gerrymandering are all historically left-leaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_commission

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#246

Post by mixmastamyk » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 7:09 AM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #236

mixmastamyk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention potentially malicious rent-seeking third parties inserted and selling financial info.

Why is this downvoted? We have three major credit bureaus, and only just recently one got hacked and leaked everyone's info. Finance in the US is full of third-party jackasses that make money by doing nothing other than acting as gatekeepers. It's the definition of rent-seeking.

Yes, was also thinking unnecessary players like venmo or mobile pay. Weren't needed in places with modern banking.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#247

Post by blisseyGo » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 7:22 AM UTC

koopuluri wrote: post #216

I moved to India at the start of the year and there's the Universal Payment Interface (UPI) here that essentially allows a Venmo like interface to transfer $ instantaneously from any bank account to another - by simply using the recipient's phone number or a QR code. There are multiple apps that interface with UPI, and the barrier to entry isn't high - allowing for good competition on the UX. Literally every person I…

> instantaneously from any bank account to another

I am already able to do that with eTransfer. That's how I pay my rent and haven't had any problems.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#248

Post by usr1106 » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 7:25 AM UTC

boruto wrote: post #238

pfundstein wrote: post #24

Nearly all first world countries enjoy instant payments at the point of sale and person to person. It boggles my mind that it has taken this long and a pandemic to even set the gears in motion, all while battling ridiculous levels of cheque and credit card fraud.

There is SEPA instant in Europe which is quite recent. But most banks charge to send money through it or have not implemented the sending part yet.

SEPA instant started November 2017. I have 3 banks in 2 SEPA countries, none of them is participating. Not that I would need it, because SEPA transfers which are "free", mandatorily offered by every bank and take only 1 banking day. But there could be use cases for instantaneously.

https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta...

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#249

Post by Sander_Marechal » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 7:33 AM UTC

riffraff wrote: post #209

rorykoehler wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always feels like going back in time whenever an American requests a cheque. I haven't filled one in for over 15 years at this stage.

I am curious, what did you use to make significant one-time payments? E.g. house, or car. Where I'm from (Italy) we still use cheques, and where I live (Hungary) they never used them. This was odd for me. This resulted in people here buying expensive items by going around with a literal bag of money, or people having to walk into a bank together. Possibly now it's solved with instant payments and everyone having a mo…

Here in The Netherlands, instant electronic payments with your debit card (pinnen) has been widely available since 1990. People sometimes used cheques before that, but even then it was rare. Most large payments happened by "Acceptgiro". It's a form that the sender would mail to the bank to authorize a payment to another bank account. Not sure if there's a proper English name for it.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#250

Post by Sander_Marechal » Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 7:41 AM UTC

pfundstein wrote: post #89

Swizec wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the flip side, when I'm in Europe, I definitely run into more places that only take cash, which I find annoying to no end. This is mostly for tax evasion reasons and sometimes for employees skimming off the top. The more “proper” a place, the less likely they are to encourage cash transactions. Happens in US too, of course. It’s always the shady places that are cash only and everyone else is digital.

That's a bit cynical. While I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I would say that smaller businesses typically accept cash-only to avoid the fees of accepting card payments. And this is not only the 1-2% transaction fee charged by (e.g.) Visa/Mastercard, these fees also include things like * Fees for the rental and maintenance of payment card terminals. * Gateway fees. * Cost of fraud prevention services. * Fees or pr…

Most of those fees don't apply to e.g. Europe. It's pretty much just hardware (starts at 30 euro or so for the cheap versions) and some transaction costs (1.5% or less, depending on volume). It's often cheaper to accept electronic payments than cash. Handling cash costs money (bank deposits, buying change, vaults, cash registers, higher insurance cost).

Even street and marker vendors in The Netherlands accept electronic payments.