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Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

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Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#211

Post by SllX »

woodruffw wrote: post #191
SllX wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say “FedNow will eventually supplement”, and I read through your post, not too thoroughly, but I liked it and saved it to my Pinboard archive. Why couldn’t FedNow eventually replace the system you described though?

It might be able to! I was being a little conservative. It's possible that some of the more obscure abilities of ACH, like death notification entries[1], won't be needed in FedNow or will be replaced separately. But that's idle speculation on my part. [1]: https://www.moderntreasury.com/journal/what-happens-when-you...

Well apparently they’re using some schema called ISO 20022, and I saw references further down that this is a complicated beast, to be expected if ISO is involved, but a cursory once over makes it appear to be the type of schema which whether easily or with the forging fires of hell or somewhere in between makes it possible to incorporate other schemas such as ACH.

Thank you for answering my questions, faster payments is something I think we can all get behind.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#212

Post by throwaway936482 »

crazygringo wrote: post #101
pfundstein wrote: post #24

Nearly all first world countries enjoy instant payments at the point of sale and person to person. It boggles my mind that it has taken this long and a pandemic to even set the gears in motion, all while battling ridiculous levels of cheque and credit card fraud.

As a general rule, the US is terrible at a lot of first-world things for a good reason: because it was the first (or close). We have crappy old subways, airports, bridges, skyscrapers, and so on... because we built them early, versions 1.0. And they stuck around. Other countries had the luxuries of building their versions decades later, when the technology was 2.0 and 3.0 and so on. So the US is stuck with both old a…

As other posters have pointed out this doesn't really hold up. I suspect it's more that since the Reagan era the USA has frequently had a self hating government, that is a government run by people that believe government itself is bad. This has led to a lot of intentional neglect and sabotage of infrastructure in the belief that "the market" will magically provide public goods. We have similar issies in the UK

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#213

Post by Shared404 »

techsupporter wrote: post #198
Shared404 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> demands you identify with a phone number... I recently found jmp.chat [0] which provides an easy workaround for this. [0] https://jmp.chat

The problem with jmp.chat and Google Voice and all of their kin (all of those "disposable number" or "second line" apps on the various app stores) is the numbers provided by them are SMS-capable VoIP numbers and a significant minority of businesses will flatly refuse to allow users to use that type of numbers. T-Mobile's DIGITS service was fantastic for this, at least for doing SMS with a number not attached to the S…

> a significant minority of businesses will flatly refuse to allow users to use that type of numbers.

How unfortunate to hear, I guess I've just gotten lucky so far.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#214

Post by djsumdog »

woodruffw wrote: post #39

Settlement between banks in the United States is astoundingly complicated, for (fascinating, terrifying) historical reasons. FedNow is a huge step towards fixing holes that private companies have been papering over for over two decades. Blatant self promotion: for anybody interested in learning more about the Automated Clearing House system (which FedNow will eventually supplement) and interbank settlement in general…

My first job out of university was working for a debt collection firm that made its own ACH engine in Perl. I remember all the 99999s and headers and stuff. I didn't work very much on the engine though (thankfully).

I was pretty shocked at just how far behind the American banking system was when I lived overseas for a bit. I wrote about it here:

https://battlepenguin.com/tech/the-american-banking-system-i...

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#215

Post by Reelin »

jimbob45 wrote: post #40
vxNsr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real ID is very worrying and I’m hopeful that it eventually goes away as it keeps getting delayed.

I don’t understand the criticism behind RealIDs and the criticism section on Wikipedia wasn’t helpful. Are passports not basically national IDs? Does it just boil down to blocking illegal immigrants from accessing some services?

It comes down to an attempt to centralize and make mandatory which translates to excessive control and easy abuse.

If there were some pressing real world need for it then perhaps it would be acceptable. There isn't though, so I can only interpret such a move in the most cynical of terms (ie exploiting 9/11 to increase federal power).

It's already fairly difficult to get by without a state ID or passport. They're often required where they aren't really needed simply because everyone is assumed to have at least a driver's license. States already collect far more information about you (IMO) than they have any business doing. Various forms of state issued ID are already more than sufficient for the vast majority of use cases. In the rare instance that greater security is required for some reason, passports exist and can be used.

(As an example, the DoD has legitimate real world security concerns. As such they've had their own ID card system, which includes a PKI chip, for far longer than most institutions. But no one is complaining (I hope) about being subject to stringent ID requirements while working for the military.)

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#216

Post by koopuluri »

I moved to India at the start of the year and there's the Universal Payment Interface (UPI) here that essentially allows a Venmo like interface to transfer $ instantaneously from any bank account to another - by simply using the recipient's phone number or a QR code. There are multiple apps that interface with UPI, and the barrier to entry isn't high - allowing for good competition on the UX.

Literally every person I've met here or wanted to transact with in some way accepts payments via UPI... heck I was forced (or rather "strongly recommended") to pay a bribe to a cop that they were able to accept via UPI.

I felt like I stepped into the future. Transferring money to a friend w/ a different bank in the US is such a hassle if they don't have Venmo (and more than half in my circle don't), and I've had horrendous experiences with Zelle (terrible UX, confusing and often incorrect sending limits that I have to call my bank to resolve).

In India I mostly use Google Pay as my interface to UPI and wow, it's a magical user experience.

Can't wait for there to be more competition in payments UX in the US once this service is set up.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#217

Post by harikb »

techsupporter wrote: post #183
harikb wrote: post #130

One thing I don't see mention regarding the existing US ACH (or whatever interbank) system is that there is absolutely no verification or security in this system. Just like verification of paper check signature and a whole lot of other financial items - most banks allow anything until questioned. The easiest and cost effective way is to let it happen and reimburse for failures. 1. I have linked a non-joint account in…

> They didn't check my ID. I am not kidding. I did enter my ATM card and PIN. If this is the bank I think it is, once you inserted your card and entered your (valid) PIN, the teller was shown the color scan of your ID card that you presented when you opened the account. The teller then uses this to compare to you without you handing over a (possibly-faked) ID card. That is why this bank will periodically ask you to p…

That is a fair point. It just felt too simple for a large transaction. I guess I should be happy at how easy it was.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#218

Post by vincnetas »

mimsee wrote: post #210
jerkstate wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>json I hope you aren't using floats for cents!

Honest question. Would it differ if one used floats in json rather than floats in XML?

No it would not, but you could use decimals in xml.

Edit: looks like there is no float in xml.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#219

Post by paulie_a »

techsupporter wrote: post #183
harikb wrote: post #130

One thing I don't see mention regarding the existing US ACH (or whatever interbank) system is that there is absolutely no verification or security in this system. Just like verification of paper check signature and a whole lot of other financial items - most banks allow anything until questioned. The easiest and cost effective way is to let it happen and reimburse for failures. 1. I have linked a non-joint account in…

> They didn't check my ID. I am not kidding. I did enter my ATM card and PIN. If this is the bank I think it is, once you inserted your card and entered your (valid) PIN, the teller was shown the color scan of your ID card that you presented when you opened the account. The teller then uses this to compare to you without you handing over a (possibly-faked) ID card. That is why this bank will periodically ask you to p…

I have never been asked for ID outside of opening an account and it was not scanned in at any point.

Re: Fed announces details of new interbank service to support instant payments

#220

Post by [deleted] »

swiley wrote: post #141
harikb wrote: post #130

One thing I don't see mention regarding the existing US ACH (or whatever interbank) system is that there is absolutely no verification or security in this system. Just like verification of paper check signature and a whole lot of other financial items - most banks allow anything until questioned. The easiest and cost effective way is to let it happen and reimburse for failures. 1. I have linked a non-joint account in…

I'm pretty sure they at least authenticate the sftp connection for the ach transfers.

[deleted]
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