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Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

bbc.com

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Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#11
This is clearly a signaling move for the wealthiest and most influential business leaders in Hong Kong who might be tempted to subvert Beijing's authority. If they can get the biggest and wealthiest pro-democracy tycoon, they can get anyone.

This is like when Putin arrested Mikhail Khodorkovsky in 2003. The Russian oligarchs fell into line shortly thereafter.

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#12
post #2

From Wikpedia [0]: Lai was born in Guangdong, China in December 1948. At the age of 12, he entered Hong Kong as a stowaway on a boat. Upon his arrival, Lai began work as a child-laborer in a garment factory for a wage of $8 per month. ... Net worth US$1.2 billion (2008) What an incredible character. Arresting a man like that has to be one of the most straightforward own-goals that a nation can manage. [0] https://en.…

China is determined to run itself to the ground

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, many (most?) tycoons are involved with lobbying of the sort that destroys the function of democracy, even though they leave the form.

Being rich and successful isn't inherently evil, nor anti-democratic. Weak and corrupt governments who bend themselves to please evil people who are also rich, however, are very much a threat to democracy.

Agreed, but using the word "evil" in a political context tends to suck all of the nuance out of the room.

The rich who attempt to bend the government are certainly ALSO a threat to the democracy.

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#14
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being rich and successful isn't inherently evil, nor anti-democratic. Weak and corrupt governments who bend themselves to please evil people who are also rich, however, are very much a threat to democracy.

Agreed, but using the word "evil" in a political context tends to suck all of the nuance out of the room. The rich who attempt to bend the government are certainly ALSO a threat to the democracy.

[deleted]

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand more how it destroys the definition of democracy: > Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία, dēmokratiā, from dēmos 'people' and kratos 'rule') is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. Who people are and how authority is shared among them are core issues for democratic theory, development and constitution. Some cornerstones of these issues are freedom o…

Excessive lobbying can lead to where although people are able to vote for representatives, said representatives are likely to do what is best for them only -- taking money from lobbyists to do things that may or may not be unethical. This leads to a situation where although you voted, you don't actually get a say in government. Of course, this only applies to representative democracy. Edit: see also kemonocode's resp…

Some among the US founding fathers argued that such was inevitable. The only plausible solution, they posited, was to encourage even more lobbying. The only thing that could protect the democracy from special interests was, well, special interests. Competing special interests. The only hope was to set them against each other.

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it an oxymoron?

In the US at least, many (most?) tycoons are involved with lobbying of the sort that destroys the function of democracy, even though they leave the form.

No most people destroying democracy are the people with nothing and want things with no effort. IMO

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand more how it destroys the definition of democracy: > Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία, dēmokratiā, from dēmos 'people' and kratos 'rule') is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. Who people are and how authority is shared among them are core issues for democratic theory, development and constitution. Some cornerstones of these issues are freedom o…

Excessive lobbying can lead to where although people are able to vote for representatives, said representatives are likely to do what is best for them only -- taking money from lobbyists to do things that may or may not be unethical. This leads to a situation where although you voted, you don't actually get a say in government. Of course, this only applies to representative democracy. Edit: see also kemonocode's resp…

If anyone has the source from freeopinion reply please add it. That actually a really interesting concept.

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#18
It’s all over for Hong Kong as it has been in the past - a bridge between east and west - a NYC of Asia.

I lived there for 4 years just after the GFC as the transition was slowly continuing to stronger Chinese rule.

My view is nothing new. My gut feeling take away was that China will want to run HK into the ground - as a middle finger to the west - and have the only strong pillars on the region to be Shanghai and Beijing.

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excessive lobbying can lead to where although people are able to vote for representatives, said representatives are likely to do what is best for them only -- taking money from lobbyists to do things that may or may not be unethical. This leads to a situation where although you voted, you don't actually get a say in government. Of course, this only applies to representative democracy. Edit: see also kemonocode's resp…

Some among the US founding fathers argued that such was inevitable. The only plausible solution, they posited, was to encourage even more lobbying. The only thing that could protect the democracy from special interests was, well, special interests. Competing special interests. The only hope was to set them against each other.

Radical transparency enforced by rules would also come a long way. The electorate would be outraged if they knew about the extent of lobbying to their representatives. It would allow them to put public pressure where it is due.

Re: Hong Kong pro-democracy tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested

#20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some among the US founding fathers argued that such was inevitable. The only plausible solution, they posited, was to encourage even more lobbying. The only thing that could protect the democracy from special interests was, well, special interests. Competing special interests. The only hope was to set them against each other.

Radical transparency enforced by rules would also come a long way. The electorate would be outraged if they knew about the extent of lobbying to their representatives. It would allow them to put public pressure where it is due.

This would be the most beneficial thing, I think. I do find the idea of competing special interest groups intriguing, but what do you do when one wins?
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