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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#21

Post by iliveinchina »

moreorless wrote: post #8
seibelj wrote: post #4

As an anecdote, someone I know is an immigrant from HK and has lived in the USA for many years, and this person is afraid of saying anything publicly against China out of fear. Fear for their family in China and fear for their personal safety even in the USA. Similar to how Russia murders defectors [0], it’s not a good idea to be an expat and criticize China. It is an authoritarian regime, bottom line. [0] https://en…

As an anecdote, I hear people call out the CPC in public places in China.

In such an environment, anecdotes may be among the most accurate information one can get.

I've never really seen such personally. People occasionally petition the central government due to grievances, but those people are heavily monitored, strongly discouraged, and later suffer negative repercussions (I know one such individual personally).

There are occasionally protests regarding local issues: housing demolition, environmental problems. They are not allowed to persist. I've never seen these in person.

I used to very occasionally see graffiti critical of the government, but I don't think I've see such in 5+ years. I figure the omnipresence of the security cameras have discouraged this.

I once received a robocall from the Falun Gong critiquing the government. I also occasionally see Falun Gong messages stamped on paper currency.

That's about it. I'm curious about the specifics of the case(s) about which you've heard.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#22

Post by thaumasiotes »

labster wrote: post #17
aww_dang wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've claimed authority to extradite anyone (including non-Chinese citizens) under this new law.

And invoked that authority: China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty

> China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States.

> R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty

This reminds me of our arrest (well, Canada's arrest at our demand) of Meng Wanzhou.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#23

Post by Razengan »

breitling wrote: post #6

This is crazy. First the Muslim concentration camps, now this. Why won't the Western world impose any serious sanctions against China? We have invaded others countries for less

> We have invaded others countries for less

America finally invaded itself: https://old.reddit.com/r/2020PoliceBrutality/

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#24

Post by iabacu »

baryphonic wrote: post #18
seibelj wrote: post #4

As an anecdote, someone I know is an immigrant from HK and has lived in the USA for many years, and this person is afraid of saying anything publicly against China out of fear. Fear for their family in China and fear for their personal safety even in the USA. Similar to how Russia murders defectors [0], it’s not a good idea to be an expat and criticize China. It is an authoritarian regime, bottom line. [0] https://en…

I don't disagree with any of this at all; in fact I'd piggy back and go further: the Chinese Communist Party is increasingly a totalitarian regime. Whereas Vladimir Putin and the Russian oligarchs are mostly interested in preserving their power and wealth, and threatening/assaulting/murdering the people who get in the way, the Chinese Communist Party regime seems to have much broader goals. From the Falun Gong persec…

Xi Jinping and the CCP’s official goal is for the Chinese people and everyone else to have a common destiny.

Interpret these how you wish, because they are interpreting these how they wish.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#25

Post by darksaints »

breitling wrote: post #6

This is crazy. First the Muslim concentration camps, now this. Why won't the Western world impose any serious sanctions against China? We have invaded others countries for less

We have never invaded any countries for purely human-rights oriented reasons. There is always a larger element of preservation of power structures and capture of wealth.

But both of those reasons would also align with an intervention in China. The true answer to why we haven't intervened is both mundane and terrifying: China has nuclear weapons.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#26

Post by actuator »

ivalm wrote: post #5
iampims wrote: post #2

This is chilling. Democracy in HK is forever gone.

Hopefully not forever, I do believe in change for the better, but for now CCP is an evil force of repression.

I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there.

We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been.

In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#27

Post by pm90 »

actuator wrote: post #26
ivalm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully not forever, I do believe in change for the better, but for now CCP is an evil force of repression.

I really don't see any change that can realistically take roots there. We have seen harsh sanctions fail to bring changes in a small poor country like NK where anyone looking South must be amazed at where they could have been. In case of PRC, forget a kinetic physical action. Their economy is so interconnected with every other major economy that no one can afford even actual sanctions.

The most practical outcome seems to be a gradual emigration of all the HK citizens to the UK/other countries. I can imagine citizens forming networks where they would warn each other of an upcoming arrest so their friends/family would scurry out of the country.

I am hopeful that the sheer number of citizens in HK would perhaps lead to the city retaining some of its independence. We can't predict the future... who knows? What if Xi dies in the next 5 years and his successor isn't such a hardliner?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#28

Post by actuator »

moreorless wrote: post #8
seibelj wrote: post #4

As an anecdote, someone I know is an immigrant from HK and has lived in the USA for many years, and this person is afraid of saying anything publicly against China out of fear. Fear for their family in China and fear for their personal safety even in the USA. Similar to how Russia murders defectors [0], it’s not a good idea to be an expat and criticize China. It is an authoritarian regime, bottom line. [0] https://en…

As an anecdote, I hear people call out the CPC in public places in China.

I remember during Beijing Olympics, there were these "protest zones" that were created which theoretically should have allowed dissent in these areas. A pass based system was introduced to get access to these places. I remember people who applied for passes getting rounded up by the police.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/08/13/china-police-detain-woul...

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#30

Post by onetimemanytime »

actuator wrote: post #28
moreorless wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote, I hear people call out the CPC in public places in China.

I remember during Beijing Olympics, there were these "protest zones" that were created which theoretically should have allowed dissent in these areas. A pass based system was introduced to get access to these places. I remember people who applied for passes getting rounded up by the police. https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/08/13/china-police-detain-woul...

Hitler also sent word that he supports restoration of the monarchy...only to kill those that agreed with that
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