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5G Just Got Weird

spectrum.ieee.org

221–230 of 300 posts

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your case what enabled the emergence of mobile apps and associated markets was the apparition of affordable smartphones -that's what created a new ecosystem for tech and pseudotech companies to grow in. What new market is 5g enabling?

No, it's more than that. There was no YouTube in 2000. Web video for wired connections was shitty. MPEG-2 was the codec dujour. Progressive Networks/Real Networks was people's conception of online video. Netflix was shipping DVDs by snail mail. If the iPhone existed in 2000, there still couldn't have been a TikTok. AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency, and fast accurate p…

4g makes Angular and React "acceptable" for webapp on smart phone that was built in PHP.

5g may makes Unity and Flutter "acceptable" for webapp on smart watch that was pre-installed.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#222
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy them then? It's not like you can control most IoT today

Hopefully that remains an option. I look at it like Smart TVs today. It's pretty much impossible to buy a TV that is not smart. If IoT takes off this will become the case with many other things imho.

There are a TON of TVs that aren't smart. Where do you get the idea that it is impossible to buy one?

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's more than that. There was no YouTube in 2000. Web video for wired connections was shitty. MPEG-2 was the codec dujour. Progressive Networks/Real Networks was people's conception of online video. Netflix was shipping DVDs by snail mail. If the iPhone existed in 2000, there still couldn't have been a TikTok. AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency, and fast accurate p…

I don't think people were watching streaming video on 3g, especially not with the data caps of the time. The improvement from 2g to 3g (in my experience at least) was literally just being able to load web pages without waiting minutes for it to finish (which is a huge improvement of course).

Sprint had unlimited 3G around 2003 called SprintVision. They also offered a service where you could stream 10-15 live cable TV channels. By 2005, this phone (https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-mm-a900-sprint-review/) could play video at around 15-20fps.

These are the services that Sprint offered over 3G on feature phones.

https://www.sprint.com/cdma/assets/pdfs/services_guides/pers...

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#224
post #75
post #73

>5G for cars to communicate with each other That's pretty good news. Even a simple "sharp braking" type coms between cars has decent potential to save lives beyond what can be achieved with radar & the like.

How do you avoid bad actors in these scenarios? Sounds ripe for general havoc, targeting specific people etc

How is it different from https://xkcd.com/1958/?

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your case what enabled the emergence of mobile apps and associated markets was the apparition of affordable smartphones -that's what created a new ecosystem for tech and pseudotech companies to grow in. What new market is 5g enabling?

No, it's more than that. There was no YouTube in 2000. Web video for wired connections was shitty. MPEG-2 was the codec dujour. Progressive Networks/Real Networks was people's conception of online video. Netflix was shipping DVDs by snail mail. If the iPhone existed in 2000, there still couldn't have been a TikTok. AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency, and fast accurate p…

> Really, how useful was a 2g (Edge) iPhone without a wifi connection?

It was sufficient to do most things, even streaming online radio. The biggest downsides were that latency was high and the annoying speaker buzz problem. 3G was a big step up. I never felt like LTE came as much of an upgrade over 3G, from there user point of view, so I question it being the defining technology for smartphones.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think people were watching streaming video on 3g, especially not with the data caps of the time. The improvement from 2g to 3g (in my experience at least) was literally just being able to load web pages without waiting minutes for it to finish (which is a huge improvement of course).

Sprint had unlimited 3G around 2003 called SprintVision. They also offered a service where you could stream 10-15 live cable TV channels. By 2005, this phone ( https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-mm-a900-sprint-review/ ) could play video at around 15-20fps. These are the services that Sprint offered over 3G on feature phones. https://www.sprint.com/cdma/assets/pdfs/services_guides/pers...

MobiTV!

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#227

Good article but I continue to feel like for whatever use cases 5g is fit to serve, it seems likely to be a limited technology, used only by heavyweight giant companies. Unlike other communications bands, there is no intent to make any of this at all consumerly accessible.

Especially the use of unlicensed spectrum has the potential to make this technology accessible to consumers (say, in lieu of wifi). So does device-to-device communication when not mediated by a network.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#228
post #8
post #2

As I’ve learned more and more about 5G (which is a nebulous term, really, but what I mean specifically is the planned upcoming releases of LTE 16 and 17, as well as the features of LTE 14 and 15 that users have yet to take advantage of) I’ve become convinced that it’s going to transform how so much of the world is designed. 5G technologies allow for more devices to send more data using less power. This is achieved us…

> As I’ve learned more and more about 5G Out of curiousity, what's a good source of information on 5G? I assume the standard itself is not the easiest thing to digest so I'd appreciate your input.

Clone the srsLTE repository [1], and use it to set up a demonstration system with a core network (srsEPC), base station (srsENB) and a mobile phone (srsUE). It's several hours work to set up a system that runs on a couple of Virtual Machines and bridges the IP networks together on your two VMs. You can then do pings and file transfers over your newly minted LTE network. An Intel i7 processor is fast enough to run a multi-megabit link in real time, with all three of the above components running on the same i7.

Use srsLTE's simulated channel model to start with, as if avoids the cost of hardware and the regulatory restrictions on making an actual radio transmission. Only buy radio hardware if you graduate to wanting to experiment with actual transmissions and have developed the knowledge to not get in trouble with the regulators.

Once you have the demo running, download the standards [2] and start digging though the srsLTE source code with the standards by your side for reference. The source code makes the standard digestible and includes comments with references to documents, teaching you the best places to start. Because you have a live system running you can experiment as needed to understand something.

5G is an evolution of 4G (LTE), so whilst the srsLTE isn't a complete 5G implementation it will teach you enough about 4G (which is the foundation of 5G) that you will probably be able to understand 5G.

I've found this approach to be a valuable way to learn about LTE/5G, but I do have a background in such systems. My feeling is such an approach would work for someone with a software background, even if lacking the radio knowledge, as the srsLTE source acts as a "roadmap" and the necessary background reading (MIMO, coding, ...) could be done on an as needed basis as the concept is encountered in the source code.

[1] https://github.com/srsLTE/srsLTE

[2] https://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/latest

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#229
post #211

I hoped 5G would be like 4G but with much more speed, lower latency, and more area covered by one antenna. But it seems it won't deliver.

It's hard to deliver both higher speed and longer range, because higher frequencies don't reach as far and don't penetrate walls as well.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around 2000, I was working at OracleMobile, attened 3GPP/Mobile Congress/etc meetings, and there was a similar discussion around 3g. People were like "what's the killer app"? At the time, most phones were WML/WAP and Blackberry-like SMS/MMS/Email experiences. People speculated "maybe music or video", but it was all very vague, no one imagined the smartphone revolution that brought all of these services, like Uber. I'…

The latency sensitive thing is supposed to be smart cars and roads. 5G is all about displacing terrestrial cable and telco to homes. (And profiting off of the carve out regulations around wireless. Most other applications don’t really care about latency. If anything, we’ve used software to move lower latency applications like voice to crowded, latent and unreliable networks.

It's such a myth that 5G can replace optic fibers, afterall 5G itself relies on it, if it requires setting up expensive(controversial) cell towers really really close to homes, why bother making it wireless.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/12/5g-as...

>Noting the dense deployment of cell sites that millimeter-wave spectrum requires, he commented: "This means that a wireless company almost needs to become a cable company to make it work."

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