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Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

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Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#261

Post by panda88888 »

imagiko wrote: post #251
jlokier wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an interesting idea! Several commenters point out end-to-end encryption would prevent filtering or tagging messages. But that's not true. The message analysis could be done at either endpoint without violating privacy. Tagging (or removing) a message before you send/forward it, or after you receive it, with "the central message of this comment has been tagged as "probably a hoax" by hoaxtracker.com; check out th…

Whoa wait what..is it really E2E if they can analyse the content before putting it through their network?

Yes, they can analyze it in the app on user devices before it is encrypted and transmitted. The app on user decide need access to clear text in order to encrypt the message. Same on the receiving end. The app on user device can analyze the message once it is decrypted on user device.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#262

Post by yalogin »

refurb wrote: post #233
yalogin wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what your motivation is for saying this. Why do you think Bill is not to be asked these questions? Do you think he would twist or misrepresent facts? Do you think somehow funding so much research makes him untrustworthy?

Oh, they can certainly ask Bill these questions, but I would say there are a ton of people who have far more expertise in infectious diseases than him. If they were asking him about funding these efforts, then yeah, he’d be the go to guy. But asking him about the science?

He is not about the details of the research, in the whole article he was simply talking about it as a manager who understands what he is leading. I am sorry but the way you phrased those statements feels as if you are convinced he is lying and has nefarious intent.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#263

Post by gexla »

ani-ani wrote: post #93

He is easily one of the least bullshit-y sources when it comes to handling of COVID. But then there's this right in the middle of the interview: " And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger] ". Quite literally, encrypted comm…

There's a lot to unpack in that quote and much of it is up to our interpretation.

I feel that the following statements could both be true.

1. Social media platforms should be able to monitor what content users are sharing on these platforms. Therefore these platforms maybe shouldn't have end-to-end encryption.

2. People need to have access to encryption for their own usage outside of social media platforms.

Where this might get tricky is in decentralized platforms which nobody owns. But we don't need to deal with this right now because it's not yet a problem. This will be a cat and mouse game always.

EDIT: Points 1 and 2 aren't necessarily my beliefs. I haven't put enough thought and research into it to have a more fully formed belief. These points are just my interpretation of what Gates could be saying. The context of encryption is in these platforms. He's not attacking encryption in general. Though other sources may reveal more information which could change my interpretation.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#264

Post by solinent »

Bill Gates is not an expert. I think I would listen to an infectious diseases professor sooner.

edit: I'm an idiot, I should have read the post, I thought this was about something else Bill Gates had said. Still, my point stands, though the tests are definitely mostly garbage.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#265

Post by lern_too_spel »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #199
lern_too_spel wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, it is possible for them to scan every message sent in real time Gates didn't suggest that the messages be sent unencrypted through government-controlled message routers either. Presumably, he is promoting systems that work like MS Teams or Slack.

> Gates didn't suggest that the messages be sent unencrypted through government-controlled message routers either. Gates attacked encryption. Nothing beneficial (to the public) follows that.

> Gates attacked encryption.

Where did he do that? Slack and Microsoft Teams also use encryption, and he wasn't opposed to the method they use it.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#266

Post by throwaway287391 »

imagiko wrote: post #251
jlokier wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an interesting idea! Several commenters point out end-to-end encryption would prevent filtering or tagging messages. But that's not true. The message analysis could be done at either endpoint without violating privacy. Tagging (or removing) a message before you send/forward it, or after you receive it, with "the central message of this comment has been tagged as "probably a hoax" by hoaxtracker.com; check out th…

Whoa wait what..is it really E2E if they can analyse the content before putting it through their network?

Sure why not? As long as no data ever leaves the device unencrypted and the encrypted data can only be decrypted by the client at the other end. Of course you'd probably have to take the app's word for it that that's actually what it's doing if you don't have the source, but that's no different from current E2E encryption offerings from WhatsApp etc.

The part I'm not sure about is whether the on-device certification that the message is "clean" couldn't be (easily) spoofed. But it would probably help curb distribution of illegal material anyway.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#267

Post by Gatsky »

ani-ani wrote: post #93

He is easily one of the least bullshit-y sources when it comes to handling of COVID. But then there's this right in the middle of the interview: " And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger] ". Quite literally, encrypted comm…

Not sure how one could make such an ill-considered comment. It is always useful to ask 'cui bono?'. Who benefits the most from e2e? Is it the individual? Or is it Facebook and friends, who can use it to drastically lower content moderation costs, legal liability and the general smell from transmitting harmful content, while making a fortune. To me, they are doing what all 'great' capitalist enterprises manage to do, which is make someone else pay for the negative externalities of their business. For other examples see the fossil fuel industry, processed food, and the grandaddy of them all, big tobacco. Gates is not swallowing the koolaid.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#268

Post by therealdrag0 »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #184
breck wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my take too. Him being frustrated at the problem. Sort of like when Obama rolls his eyes when someone makes a birther joke. I personally think the solution isn't to make it harder to share lies, but easier to share the truth. Sharing the truth is actually extremely labor intensive.

Gates seems to hint that the way to reduce lie-sharing is by eliminating safe encryption (replacing safe encryption with unsafe encryption). This is an inherently dangerous stance (to everyone except repressive authoritarians).

Are you familiar with how much child pornography has ballooned from social media? I hadn’t until I listened to this podcast with NYT investigative journalist. Worth considering how serious the trade offs are https://samharris.org/podcasts/213-worst-epidemic/

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#269

Post by throwaway080920 »

refurb wrote: post #36

Maybe it’s just me, but I find it odd that Gates is the go to source for public health issues. His biggest contribution is money, which pays for really smart people to tackle these issues. So why not talk to the really smart people he hired?

Indeed, if you look at what he was saying at the end of February, there was no concern about the way the U.S. was handling the pandemic. Look at what he wrote on February 28th[1] - his recommendations for the current pandemic are for richer countries to assist poorer countries, and for a vaccine to be made.

If someone like Gates sounded the alarm on the poor way the U.S. was responding, it might have made a difference, but he did no such thing. Like most of the leadership in the U.S., he seemed to have a big blind spot with regards to how bad things could get in America. Some people were sounding the alarm early on (take a look at the last minute of this video[2] for an example), but were mostly ignored.

[1] https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/How-to-respond-to-COVID-19 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8VImMUvz-A

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#270

Post by therealdrag0 »

ani-ani wrote: post #93

He is easily one of the least bullshit-y sources when it comes to handling of COVID. But then there's this right in the middle of the interview: " And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger] ". Quite literally, encrypted comm…

Are you familiar with how much child pornography has ballooned from social media? I hadn’t until I listened to this podcast with NYT investigative journalist. Worth considering how serious on of the trade offs are... https://samharris.org/podcasts/213-worst-epidemic/
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