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5G Just Got Weird

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Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#201

Post by mac01021 »

benbristow wrote: post #148
mac01021 wrote: post #111

Not exactly on topic: There have been a few HN submissions in the past linking to papers concerned with the effect of 5G on insects. As a layperson I was not able to evaluate those papers. But if anyone knows if there was any kind of consensus reached about that, or even if this is something that anyone serious is concerned about, I would appreciate the pointer.

Hopefully not something to fuel conspiracy theorists with more reasons to burn down mobile towers like what has been happening in the UK recently.

What conspiracies are moving people to do that? And how do you burn down a steel tower?

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#202

Post by paul7986 »

thinkingkong wrote: post #11

5G doesnt seem like its enabling anything fundamentally new. The talk of any ”killer app” based on having more throughput or on these optimizations always feels like demand generation and slightly inauthentic. Are there any technologies enabled by these techniques that are not possible today?

Maybe 5G will provide much needed and true home broadband competition to the Comcast's and Charters we have now. Some ppl are lucky and have two options to choose from while most only have one which is terrible.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#203

Post by fuoqi »

blincoln wrote: post #93
TotempaaltJ wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulate security measures eg signed messaging where only manufacturers can get certificates? Maybe combine it with license plate so it's traceable to a person?

So the attack will then be to hook into the car's on-board computer and tell it to send the falsified message with a fake plate number, and let the existing cryptographic code handle the signing. Alternatively, dump a legit cert once (e.g. by detailed examination of one on-board computer), then put that into the malicious hardware that sends falsified messages. This is "the DRM problem", but in reverse. There is no w…

https://xkcd.com/1958/

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#204

Post by bleepblorp »

maliker wrote: post #82
rsynnott wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last mile for fixed rural wireless broadband seems like the obvious one. Today, this is generally done with either LTE or various proprietary things (or if you’re particularly unlucky, satellite). 5G should allow for greater total bandwidth, reducing the impact of contention. And on the other side, it should be helpful for very dense urban usage. Try using LTE in a large city’s central train station at a busy time an…

There’s a huge push at the US federal level to get fiber to the home in rural areas. 10s of billions in funding. A lot of times it’s run by the electric companies (coops). They already have the right of way, pole access, and customer relationships. There are dozens of utilities pursuing this, haven’t heard of any working with 5g. There was a recent executive order restricting foreign equipment on the grid, and I susp…

Is there much evidence that this funding will do anything more than previous rounds of rural internet funding? Previous funding has simply disappeared into the pockets of incumbent players without any hardware being built.

Technology isn't a solution for graft.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#205

Post by everdrive »

cromwellian wrote: post #145
overkalix wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your case what enabled the emergence of mobile apps and associated markets was the apparition of affordable smartphones -that's what created a new ecosystem for tech and pseudotech companies to grow in. What new market is 5g enabling?

No, it's more than that. There was no YouTube in 2000. Web video for wired connections was shitty. MPEG-2 was the codec dujour. Progressive Networks/Real Networks was people's conception of online video. Netflix was shipping DVDs by snail mail. If the iPhone existed in 2000, there still couldn't have been a TikTok. AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency, and fast accurate p…

>Really, how useful was a 2g (Edge) iPhone without a wifi connection?

On a webpage without 80mb of javascript, it's quite useful.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#206

Post by blincoln »

ricardobeat wrote: post #115
blincoln wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the attack will then be to hook into the car's on-board computer and tell it to send the falsified message with a fake plate number, and let the existing cryptographic code handle the signing. Alternatively, dump a legit cert once (e.g. by detailed examination of one on-board computer), then put that into the malicious hardware that sends falsified messages. This is "the DRM problem", but in reverse. There is no w…

There is also no way to stop someone throwing rocks at passing cars. People will die as a result. The deterrents in both cases will be the same: humanity, liability and law enforcement.

Most of the people who will use malicious signals won't set out to actually hurt other people. They'll just use them to make tailgaters' cars brake quickly, or manipulate traffic in some way that benefits them, like the people in the late 80s or early 90s who figured out that putting strobe lights on their car roofs would let them make some city signals turn green for them. There are far, far more people who would be interested in that sort of thing than would be interested in the electronic equivalent of throwing rocks.

It's the unintended consequences that will generally kill people, like causing a multi-car pileup because the tailgater whose car was forced to brake was being tailgated themselves.

There will be very little way to enforce laws against that kind of activity, because there won't really be any forensic evidence at all.

There is no good way to do this. Even assuming a 100% flawless implementation of a "trusted enclave", people will just buy an ECU from a scrapped car, hook it up to a device that simulates the right sensor input to generate certain vehicle-to-vehicle communications, and stick it in the trunk of their actual car.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#207

Post by ggm »

mdorazio wrote: post #97
thinkingkong wrote: post #11

5G doesnt seem like its enabling anything fundamentally new. The talk of any ”killer app” based on having more throughput or on these optimizations always feels like demand generation and slightly inauthentic. Are there any technologies enabled by these techniques that are not possible today?

Be careful with expectations of "possible" vs. "practical". 5G for IoT devices is a big deal in remote field and some industrial settings where wi-fi is not an option. Two examples for you: I worked on a pilot project with a state government group that wanted remote monitoring of water levels in wetlands and ponds spread across a few hundred square miles of mostly-rural area. wi-fi obviously wasn't an option and gett…

5G power use per bit is supposedly going to be far lower than 3G/4G.

For shorter ranges because higher frequency.

For average per-bit cost, because more bits/sec in the higher frequency encoding.

But, for IoT there is the burden of turning the RF segment on, finding lock, sending. So, for small 'grams' of message it won't necessarily be as good as the per-bit cost for streaming data or long lived associations. And, shorter ranges: You will be deploying more base stations. Albiet with lower power budget too, but .. Nothing is free.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#208

Post by hammock »

thinkingkong wrote: post #11

5G doesnt seem like its enabling anything fundamentally new. The talk of any ”killer app” based on having more throughput or on these optimizations always feels like demand generation and slightly inauthentic. Are there any technologies enabled by these techniques that are not possible today?

The massive MIMO/beamforming for location-pinpointing seems novel to me. Can't really do that with current tech/infra

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#209

Post by gsich »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #190
xenonite wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

super-high bandwidth and low-latency? Also given high reliability, I imagine remote drone-flight and remote car-driving.

How do you get around the extremely poor range of 5G? Also, I’ve heard a lot of ISPs tout the download speed with 5G and almost none say how much the upload speed will be on their networks.

5g can have the same range as LTE, if similar frequencies are used.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#210

Post by CarbyAu »

5G communication fine. But trust? I don't want my car accepting information from untrusted cars or roadside infrastructure.

It will be interesting riding a motorbike through these years.

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