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Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

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Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#191

Post by matwood »

H8crilA wrote: post #135
ani-ani wrote: post #93

He is easily one of the least bullshit-y sources when it comes to handling of COVID. But then there's this right in the middle of the interview: " And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger] ". Quite literally, encrypted comm…

This is just Gates venting out, dude is sooo frustrated. Imagine doing as much as he did and still getting horseshit accusations about putting chips into people's bodies or whatever new nonsense they will come up in 6 months.

I agree, but Gates has to know that on balance e2e encryption is better than not. I too feel the same frustration to a much lesser degree when talking to family members.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#192

Post by keithnz »

_prototype_ wrote: post #174
popnroll wrote: post #139

I think Gates is right. What is the problem with the government controlling communication? There are clear advantages, like handling illegal things. What are the disadvantages, the nude photo of your ex-girlfriend being analyzed by a machine?

This is one of the most ridiculous statements/questions I've ever read. Just read history. There are ample examples of why we should not give the government control of communication channels. Wow, just wow.

This tends to be a hot button issue for many, but just as a counter to your "ridiculous" claim, history tells us many things, including being able to intercept dangerous communication can stop VERY bad things happening to societies. You can't just look at one side. This isn't a black and white issue, it's about trying to find the right balance. I personally think we should favor personal privacy. I also think any attempts to try and control comms will be fleeting and will ultimately fail with the invention of even better decentralized privacy technology.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#193

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

nickff wrote: post #121
devcpp wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be pragmatic and utilitarian and support privacy and free use of encryption. I would instead qualify his mindset of shortsighted.

Anyone who rigorously follows an ethical framework will eventually be lead to some conclusion(s) they dislike; utilitarianism is no guarantee of satisfaction. An honest utilitarian would be willing to share their calculations, which would be interesting to see, though I am not sure how you'd balance the interests in the cases described above.

>Anyone who rigorously follows an ethical framework will eventually be lead to some conclusion(s) they dislike

I've fallen into this trap. It led me to realize that, like ideologies, all frameworks are flawed. Assuming otherwise leads to positions that are starved for empathy and compassion - and that are ultimately counterproductive.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#194

Post by clusterfish »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #128
lordofgibbons wrote: post #95

>And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger]. WOW. Why would someone in the tech industry like Gates be anti-encryption for the public? The only argument I can think of against it is "You have nothing to worry about if you ha…

Considering encrypted messages have to both be encrypted and decrypted, I don't think his statement is necessarily against encrypted. I assumed he meant preventing the sending of known materials like that and / or the opening of it (which wouldn't interfere with end-to-end encryption at all).

He's not some random out of touch congressman though, he personally should know better than to make such an unspecific attack on encryption. The way he said it, everyone will hear that he wants the government to limit encryption which essentially means to ban it.

And they wouldn't be wrong. If the same thing came out of someone else's mouth I assume you wouldn't be seeking out an unreasonably charitable explanation like this.

And if such a plan was introduced by Trump you probably wouldn't even think of this charitable version as a good plan at all because at the end of the day, things like censorship and mass surveillance are tools of oppression in the wrong hands, and you have no control whose hands it will end up in once it's normalized.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#195

Post by lern_too_spel »

thekyle wrote: post #167
lern_too_spel wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did he say government should read everyone's private messages? Governments can access my security box at the bank. That is different from governments rifling through it all the time.

In practice there is no scalable way for the government to check everyone's security box every second. However, it is possible for them to scan every message sent in real time and past leaks have shown that they will if given the opportunity.

> However, it is possible for them to scan every message sent in real time

Gates didn't suggest that the messages be sent unencrypted through government-controlled message routers either. Presumably, he is promoting systems that work like MS Teams or Slack.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#196

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #137
ani-ani wrote: post #93

He is easily one of the least bullshit-y sources when it comes to handling of COVID. But then there's this right in the middle of the interview: " And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger] ". Quite literally, encrypted comm…

Where did he say government should read everyone's private messages? Governments can access my security box at the bank. That is different from governments rifling through it all the time.

>Where did he say government should read everyone's private messages?

He is demonizing encryption. There are few options that logically follow that stance.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#197

Post by FriendlyNormie »

BeatLeJuce wrote: post #119
olivermarks wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not misleading at all, you've just grown up in a warm bath of Bill Gates PR. Gates is a very shrewd business man from a very shrewd and well connected family. There is nothing 'amazing' about his monopolistic practices, which he is now focusing on global bigPharma. Gates hides behind a 'giving it all away' trust based (aka tax avoidance) philanthropy but his wealth has doubled in the last few years. I wouldn't n…

Did I despise MS od the 90s and their business tactics? Sure. But wether he pays taxes on his philanthropic endeavors doesn't really matter, what matters is that they exist and do some good in the world -- and certainly, spending money on health care is good in my book. So what makes him a "dark character" in your eyes?

No post body was provided.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#198

Post by matwood »

creato wrote: post #83
codebolt wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, he's become a highly controversial figure for a large fraction of the population, particularly within the societies that his foundation works. In my opinion, they'd do good to pick a figure whose name is less tarnished if they want the message to be more broadly accepted.

No matter who you put forth saying what Gates has been saying, they will quickly be tarnished by the same baseless bullshit. Effectively 0% of people knew who Facui or Birx were before the pandemic. Now they're the target of the same kind of controversy.

I think if someone was gay and or dealt with HIV in some form, they likely heard of Dr Fauci. Researchers definitely know who is. From his CDC bio: “In a 2020 analysis of Google Scholar citations, Dr. Fauci ranked as the 41st most highly cited researcher of all time. According to the Web of Science, Dr. Fauci ranked 7th out of more than 1.8 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and January 2020.”

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#199

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #195
thekyle wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice there is no scalable way for the government to check everyone's security box every second. However, it is possible for them to scan every message sent in real time and past leaks have shown that they will if given the opportunity.

> However, it is possible for them to scan every message sent in real time Gates didn't suggest that the messages be sent unencrypted through government-controlled message routers either. Presumably, he is promoting systems that work like MS Teams or Slack.

> Gates didn't suggest that the messages be sent unencrypted through government-controlled message routers either.

Gates attacked encryption. Nothing beneficial (to the public) follows that.

Re: Interview with Bill Gates on Covid, social media

#200

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

reillyse wrote: post #109
ani-ani wrote: post #93

He is easily one of the least bullshit-y sources when it comes to handling of COVID. But then there's this right in the middle of the interview: " And when you have [posts] encrypted, there is no way to know what it is. I personally believe government should not allow those types of lies or fraud or child pornography [to be hidden with encryption like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger] ". Quite literally, encrypted comm…

I don't think he is saying that encrypted communication should be illegal. He's saying that spreading lies through encrypted channels should be stopped. It would not be hard for WhatsApp to prevent people from spreading bogus videos, because they have access to the unencrypted information before and after sending. So either preventing people from sharing misinformation or preventing people from reading the misinforma…

"It would be hard for WhatsApp to prevent people from spreading bogus videos, because they have access to the unencrypted information before and after sending."

Facebook/WhatsApp claims WhatsApp messages are "end-to-end" encypted. For example, here

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:...

Are the "end-to-end" encryption claims irrelevant if "they have access to the unecncypted information before and after sending"?

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