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5G Just Got Weird

spectrum.ieee.org

151–160 of 300 posts

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink will probably do better than 5G for access to rural areas because you don't need to build out a physical cable. In highly dense urban areas with large numbers of simultaneous users, 5G is a better fit.

Have the 5G towers connect to Starlink rather than running the cabling to them.

That doesn't really fix the total bandwidth capacity issue though.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your case what enabled the emergence of mobile apps and associated markets was the apparition of affordable smartphones -that's what created a new ecosystem for tech and pseudotech companies to grow in. What new market is 5g enabling?

> What new market is 5g enabling? The more interesting feature in 5G is the signalling for IoT devices, those that wake up infrequently. Metering devices, handheld payment devices, patient home monitors, security systems, Airton, etc. 5G isn't really about more bandwidth but always on and more efficient use. This will enable more than just phones and a few tablets.

This low power argument makes far more sense than the high-bandwidth cases normally thrown around, especially because a lot of iOT can be outside where the signals aren't blocked by walls or near a for purpose commercial antena. I can imagine some server based interactive gaming/UIs only if the rest of the backend also improves. Fast refresh VR could be another use-case, if they didn't get so heavy and hot for other (non data) reasons.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#153

Good article but I continue to feel like for whatever use cases 5g is fit to serve, it seems likely to be a limited technology, used only by heavyweight giant companies. Unlike other communications bands, there is no intent to make any of this at all consumerly accessible.

I think, the general idea is to make this very accessible. But obviously, there will be a price to pay: buy this Matebook - no Wifi, but hey you can get this very sweet, data-limited 5G plan for only USD50 a month. Get an unlimited plan for USD300 a month. Or: buy this car, with superfast 5G V2V – oh, there's a USD1000 licenses included; well, nevermind. (and remember, some companies would have liked to use Wifi for V2V, which is freeish...)

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#154
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But on the industrial side, there will be offerings that allow for low data rate, low power applications at cheaper and cheaper prices. oh great, now my appliances can phone home even without connecting to a wifi network.

Maybe you should consider not buying internet connected devices or following a simple YouTube tutorial to disable the modem. This is only a problem if you wish it to be.

What if it becomes so commonplace you no longer have a choice to buy a device not connected to the internet? and if it's not easy to disable the modem?

Right now it's already hard enough to have a smartphone's software not spying on you.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your case what enabled the emergence of mobile apps and associated markets was the apparition of affordable smartphones -that's what created a new ecosystem for tech and pseudotech companies to grow in. What new market is 5g enabling?

No, it's more than that. There was no YouTube in 2000. Web video for wired connections was shitty. MPEG-2 was the codec dujour. Progressive Networks/Real Networks was people's conception of online video. Netflix was shipping DVDs by snail mail. If the iPhone existed in 2000, there still couldn't have been a TikTok. AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency, and fast accurate p…

> Really, how useful was a 2g (Edge) iPhone without a wifi connection?

Very. Lots of sites had mobile versions of pages by the iPhone's release. These were originally intended for Blazor and pocket IE but they worked fine for an iPhone on EDGE. I could do e-mail just fine on EDGE as well.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#156
post #122
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about LoRaWAN?

This is opportunistic and free for everyone to use. For a big number of use cases you need licensed spectrum to ensure some minimum standards of communication. Imagine what happens when a lot of WiFi access points are in the same small neighborhood.

> remote monitoring of water levels in wetlands and ponds spread across a few hundred square miles of mostly-rural area.

But wouldn’t it work for this use case he had?

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But your case what enabled the emergence of mobile apps and associated markets was the apparition of affordable smartphones -that's what created a new ecosystem for tech and pseudotech companies to grow in. What new market is 5g enabling?

No, it's more than that. There was no YouTube in 2000. Web video for wired connections was shitty. MPEG-2 was the codec dujour. Progressive Networks/Real Networks was people's conception of online video. Netflix was shipping DVDs by snail mail. If the iPhone existed in 2000, there still couldn't have been a TikTok. AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency, and fast accurate p…

> AR glasses for example, could totally upend all of this and require 5G low latency

5G "low latency": I'm not impressed with "1-2 ms" first hop latency; 0.1 ms should be achievable by now, surely.

AR over networks: Maybe. But I think having more compute out on the edge nodes is going to deliver more for us in the long term than faster comms.

Every extra millisecond in the rendering pipeline decreases the usability of AR significantly.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#158

Not exactly on topic: There have been a few HN submissions in the past linking to papers concerned with the effect of 5G on insects. As a layperson I was not able to evaluate those papers. But if anyone knows if there was any kind of consensus reached about that, or even if this is something that anyone serious is concerned about, I would appreciate the pointer.

My anecdote data. I'm living in Kazakhstan and there's an interesting observation. We used to have lots of cockroaches in houses, especially when houses were not very clean. It was, I think, before 1995. It seems the same with our post-USSR neighbour countries (Russia, and so on). I used to live in such a flat, where lots of cockroaches were running in the kitchen at night. I remember as a child that we tried differe…

It's cockroach-specific poisons. The building management probably deployed one of the new ones. They're incredibly effective compared to the older style, as much as 500x better.

The problem with cockroaches is that they'll eat a small amount of something, throw it up, and then avoid it. Even if you just barely kill one, it'll just die, and its hundreds of children will replace it.

Modern poisons are tasteless, odourless, and aren't directly poisonous, so the cockroach doesn't feel bad and doesn't throw up. It can't learn to avoid it. These chemicals are designed to be converted into a poison by an enzyme in the body of the cockroach, slowly. This means that the chemical is basically harmless to pets, humans, and other animals, but lethal to this one insect species. It also allows the roach to consume hundreds of times a lethal dose before starting to succumb to the effects. When it does eventually throw up and die, any other roaches that consume the vomit (I know, eww, but apparently this happens) are eating the precursor, not the poison, and once again can easily consume many times the lethal dose. This has a multiplying effect on the efficacy, as roaches will often throw up and die in their nest, poisoning their entire brood.

As anecdotal evidence: I had WiFi and 4G in my previous apartment, but roaches everywhere. I deployed the roach bait gel, and they vanished. My new apartment has 1 bar of mobile reception, but there are no roaches anywhere because here the building management gets an exterminator to put out roach poison gel.

That's probably why you've seen the roaches disappear: the marvels of modern chemistry, not physics!

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#159

5G will make Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, BLE, and NFC obsolete.

I could see wi-fi (even if I don't believe it) but how would this compete with BLE/NFC/Bluetooth? It's not like I want my wireless earbuds or my apple pay to go up to the internet and then back to device i'm using it from, right?

"Sidelinks will allow 5G-connected vehicles to communicate directly with one another, rather than going through a cell-tower intermediary."

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#160
post #153

Good article but I continue to feel like for whatever use cases 5g is fit to serve, it seems likely to be a limited technology, used only by heavyweight giant companies. Unlike other communications bands, there is no intent to make any of this at all consumerly accessible.

I think, the general idea is to make this very accessible. But obviously, there will be a price to pay: buy this Matebook - no Wifi, but hey you can get this very sweet, data-limited 5G plan for only USD50 a month. Get an unlimited plan for USD300 a month. Or: buy this car, with superfast 5G V2V – oh, there's a USD1000 licenses included; well, nevermind. (and remember, some companies would have liked to use Wifi for…

I thought V2V was going to use redundant, multi-media, communications - such as modulating a car’s lights’ LED PWM to provide a low-bandwidth signal to other cars within line-of-sight, while also using some analogue of Bluetooth and Wi-Fi for longe-range communications.
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