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5G Just Got Weird

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#121

Post by vbezhenar »

mac01021 wrote: post #111

Not exactly on topic: There have been a few HN submissions in the past linking to papers concerned with the effect of 5G on insects. As a layperson I was not able to evaluate those papers. But if anyone knows if there was any kind of consensus reached about that, or even if this is something that anyone serious is concerned about, I would appreciate the pointer.

My anecdote data. I'm living in Kazakhstan and there's an interesting observation. We used to have lots of cockroaches in houses, especially when houses were not very clean. It was, I think, before 1995. It seems the same with our post-USSR neighbour countries (Russia, and so on). I used to live in such a flat, where lots of cockroaches were running in the kitchen at night. I remember as a child that we tried different chemicals to fight them, but with little success. And it was similar for many other people.

And at some point they were just gone. From everyone's house. It was not just one day, but we just understood that there are no cockroaches around.

It's still possible to find them somewhere, I guess, but that's a rare event. Something's changed.

Some people think that's because chemicals finally became effective and eradicated them. And some people think that's because of cellular networks which appeared everywhere around that time. I never found definitive answer, just speculations.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#122

Post by Foivos »

fallat wrote: post #117
mdorazio wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with expectations of "possible" vs. "practical". 5G for IoT devices is a big deal in remote field and some industrial settings where wi-fi is not an option. Two examples for you: I worked on a pilot project with a state government group that wanted remote monitoring of water levels in wetlands and ponds spread across a few hundred square miles of mostly-rural area. wi-fi obviously wasn't an option and gett…

What about LoRaWAN?

This is opportunistic and free for everyone to use. For a big number of use cases you need licensed spectrum to ensure some minimum standards of communication. Imagine what happens when a lot of WiFi access points are in the same small neighborhood.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#123

Post by Shelnutt2 »

mattlondon wrote: post #114
mdorazio wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful with expectations of "possible" vs. "practical". 5G for IoT devices is a big deal in remote field and some industrial settings where wi-fi is not an option. Two examples for you: I worked on a pilot project with a state government group that wanted remote monitoring of water levels in wetlands and ponds spread across a few hundred square miles of mostly-rural area. wi-fi obviously wasn't an option and gett…

Is it realistic to expect 5G coverage in rural wetlands? From what I understand, the range of a single 5G base station is significantly lower than 2/3/4G so they are having to install new cell sites in major towns and cities just for 5G coverage.

Millimeter wave frequencies are just one aspect of "5G", the standard of 3GPP Release 15 (and newer) are improvements and build off the existing standards of LTE (releases 8-14). Its quite possible, and likely that "5G" will be deployed across all existing spectrum, including lower frequency. Much like LTE has been and continues to be deployed across existing spectrum that was 2G/3G.

The focus on millimeter wave is large part due to existing capacity problems in high density areas, or for high bandwidth applications.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#124

Post by BenjiWiebe »

rsynnott wrote: post #16
thinkingkong wrote: post #11

5G doesnt seem like its enabling anything fundamentally new. The talk of any ”killer app” based on having more throughput or on these optimizations always feels like demand generation and slightly inauthentic. Are there any technologies enabled by these techniques that are not possible today?

Last mile for fixed rural wireless broadband seems like the obvious one. Today, this is generally done with either LTE or various proprietary things (or if you’re particularly unlucky, satellite). 5G should allow for greater total bandwidth, reducing the impact of contention. And on the other side, it should be helpful for very dense urban usage. Try using LTE in a large city’s central train station at a busy time an…

Quite a bit of rural fixed wireless broadband uses Wifi for the last mile.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#125

Post by thefounder »

vbezhenar wrote: post #121
mac01021 wrote: post #111

Not exactly on topic: There have been a few HN submissions in the past linking to papers concerned with the effect of 5G on insects. As a layperson I was not able to evaluate those papers. But if anyone knows if there was any kind of consensus reached about that, or even if this is something that anyone serious is concerned about, I would appreciate the pointer.

My anecdote data. I'm living in Kazakhstan and there's an interesting observation. We used to have lots of cockroaches in houses, especially when houses were not very clean. It was, I think, before 1995. It seems the same with our post-USSR neighbour countries (Russia, and so on). I used to live in such a flat, where lots of cockroaches were running in the kitchen at night. I remember as a child that we tried differe…

lol! You still find cockroaches around regardless of wi-fi or 4g signal

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#126

Post by BenjiWiebe »

nitrogen wrote: post #101
nightski wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that remains an option. I look at it like Smart TVs today. It's pretty much impossible to buy a TV that is not smart. If IoT takes off this will become the case with many other things imho.

Faraday cage houses will become a thing.

Or 5G sniffers/detectors, to wave around your supposedly-non-5G smart appliance.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#127

Post by mellosouls »

Seems a poor taste title considering the conspiracy theories around 5G that have actually got engineers physically attacked and threatened.

Click bait is one thing but poor form in this context and publication.

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#128

Post by cupofjoakim »

BigBalli wrote: post #60

5G will make Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, BLE, and NFC obsolete.

I could see wi-fi (even if I don't believe it) but how would this compete with BLE/NFC/Bluetooth? It's not like I want my wireless earbuds or my apple pay to go up to the internet and then back to device i'm using it from, right?

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#129

Post by casefields »

andybak wrote: post #76
swebs wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does every thread really have to turn into some us-vs-them USA election fight?

I read that as a crazy people vs non-crazy people thing.

And crazy people already do crazy things. Example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_sh...

Re: 5G Just Got Weird

#130

Post by partyboat1586 »

thefounder wrote: post #125
vbezhenar wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anecdote data. I'm living in Kazakhstan and there's an interesting observation. We used to have lots of cockroaches in houses, especially when houses were not very clean. It was, I think, before 1995. It seems the same with our post-USSR neighbour countries (Russia, and so on). I used to live in such a flat, where lots of cockroaches were running in the kitchen at night. I remember as a child that we tried differe…

lol! You still find cockroaches around regardless of wi-fi or 4g signal

Clearly he doesn't. Do you?
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