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Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

advances.sciencemag.org

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Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#11

[flagged]

There has been a strong anti-science component in the US for literally centuries. These advances have been despite the sentiment. In addition, it isn't like other countries weren't going to space or weren't working on it (just like now). Tech has been mirrored elsewhere for a long time, but an American education might lead you to believe differently (I know mine didn't really mention that things like cars were being developed elsewhere - they just mention the first American to make things).

If you want a fine example of this, look at the push against modern medicine. Folks were eshewing "European-style medicine" for quite some time.

The US Took a really, really long time to eliminate lead from paint and gasoline, comparatively, even though we knew about the harm.

We knew things about climate change before WWII, and the denial then was pretty strong. People were scoffing about Earth Day when I was a child - I'm 42 now.

Anti-maskers were about in the 1910's with the Spanish flu. The anti-vax movement has been around since.. well, around the time we started to have vaccines. Yes, folks lined up for them, but not everyone.

It is a whole heck of a lot easier to be vocal about it now, though, and easier to reach others to try to convince them.

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#13
post #3

The market for face masks is probably enormous right now but the information out there on which ones to buy is anemic. I assumed this was because masks were such a commodity that it didn't really matter which ones you bought, but this article shows otherwise. Even just among the cotton ones there is quite a difference.

A couple of reasons for this spring to mind immediately. Firstly, governments don't want people using the most effective masks because there's barely enough of them to supply hospitals. Secondly, the push for masking has absolutely nothing to do with effectiveness. For instance, people keep pointing to things like the 1918 flu epidemic as proof we've always known masks worked, but as far as I can tell those masks were made of gauze and therefore likely as bad as or worse than the worst mask in the study. And there was an article going around pointing to this study of the effect of reducing the dose of flu virus people were exposed to as proof masks worked better than expected: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342672/ Notice how, at the part of the curve where reducing the amount of virus had the most effect, it took a tenfold reduction or so to reduce the number of people showing symptoms or testing positive by about 30%? On its face that seems kind of bad for the idea of using random non-medical face coverings with much worse filteration, but that's not how it's been spun.

Also, I think a lot of this has to do with what people feel will work based on it having a good narrative attached. For example, there's this fairly widespread idea that valved masks are not OK and worse than random cotton face coverings which I think has even been enshrined as an actual legal requirement in a few places despite clearly not matching up with the test results here. Presumably this is because it feels like deliberately letting your own breath out past the filter via valves is intentionally exposing others, even though anyone who wears an ordinary non-fitted face mask can easily notice that exhalation blows out around the edge of the mask anyway - often with really annoying results for glasses wearers. A bunch of British news organisations even accused our government of telling people to wear "useless" maasks and endangering the public for showing a valved mask in their advice: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-f...

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#14

I have an even better way, albeit a bit dirty. Take a vape pen and simply put your mask on before exhaling; "eyeball" the size and trajectories of the exhaled vapor, select the mask that wins, and call it a day.

I don't think there's any reason to assume vapour from a pen resembles the droplets in your breath. In fact, that one of them is visible and the other is not should suggest that they might behave very differently.

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the broader point is one that still stands: wearing literally anything over your nose and mouth is shown, by this study, to cut droplet by at least 50%. Even the cotton varieties cut it from 70% to 90%. So...people need to just slap something over their two air exchanging orifices on their faces before leaving the house and contribute to the our greater health. You're right about the differences in effectiven…

> wearing literally anything Well, no: the fleece mask broke larger droplets into many smaller ones, resulting in an increase of 10% in the number of droplets compared to the no-mask baseline. Being smaller droplets, they would also hang in the air longer.

Potentially a good thing to keep in mind for the upcoming ski season if people think their fleece face coverings will be effective.

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#16
post #3

The market for face masks is probably enormous right now but the information out there on which ones to buy is anemic. I assumed this was because masks were such a commodity that it didn't really matter which ones you bought, but this article shows otherwise. Even just among the cotton ones there is quite a difference.

I think the broader point is one that still stands: wearing literally anything over your nose and mouth is shown, by this study, to cut droplet by at least 50%. Even the cotton varieties cut it from 70% to 90%. So...people need to just slap something over their two air exchanging orifices on their faces before leaving the house and contribute to the our greater health. You're right about the differences in effectiven…

You touch your face more when adjusting the mask so if it's not efficient enough it may be a net negative.

Edit: This is one of the main reason the Scandinavian countries recommend against _all_ mask use (including N95) so not sure why I'm getting downvoted for merely saying an inefficient mask could have that problem.

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#18

[flagged]

There has been a strong anti-science component in the US for literally centuries. These advances have been despite the sentiment. In addition, it isn't like other countries weren't going to space or weren't working on it (just like now). Tech has been mirrored elsewhere for a long time, but an American education might lead you to believe differently (I know mine didn't really mention that things like cars were being…

Yeah, it's interesting, even the comment you're replying to betrays the duality.

50 years ago the U.S. put a man on the moon, following the coattails of the civil rights movement, meanwhile suffering through one of the most corrupt presidencies, a resurgence of white supremacy that would echo for decades to come, and the beginning of an ignorant war that would destroy the lives of many tens of millions of Americans (the war on drugs).

And here we are, today, with an American company SpaceX yet again redefining humanity's reach and we are again suffering through easily the most corrupt presidency to date, white supremacy, and ignorance that is destroying American lives.

I think like many it's hard not to look at America today and worry that things are worse than they've ever been. But I think in many ways you're right; America has always been like this. A violent cocktail of the best and worst of humanity, shaken, not stirred.

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#19

[flagged]

I was rewatching Stranger Things last night and Hopper made a comment about how a missing child brings out the crazies (his words, for those somehow not in the know, it's a show set in the 80s, no internet, no mobile phones).

I'm starting to suspect that the media, police, government in all its forms, just used to filter them all out. File their reports and letters in the wastebin.

I do wonder whether we've now just given those people an ability to talk to the whole world via Twitter/Facebook/etc., who aren't filtering them out.

So perhaps the narrative was always there, but pre-internet was easily filtered.

Re: Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets

#20
Somewhat off topic, but I think that the figure labeling in this article is disappointing.

In figure 2, the masks are numbered but not named.

In figure 3, the masks are named but not numbered.

So, I can't (personally) tell which mask from figure 1 performed well and which mask performed poorly.

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