How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company • Hacker News Board

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#191

Post by sfblah » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 12:58 AM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #170

DeonPenny wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says I would be at their mercy, for example look at Google and Android. Does it seem like Samsung is waiting for Google's release. Google has the most knowledge of Android yet doesn't sell nearly as may phones. The only reason google continues this is because they make money from search, but if they had to make money from phones they'd have gone under.

Yes that's the point, google can still have make money despite samsung copying by using different strategy.

Samsung has to use Google search because of the Android licensing agreement, which goes back to IP. If they could, they’d switch off to Bing and get a better revshare.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#192

Post by DeonPenny » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:06 AM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #170

DeonPenny wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says I would be at their mercy, for example look at Google and Android. Does it seem like Samsung is waiting for Google's release. Google has the most knowledge of Android yet doesn't sell nearly as may phones. The only reason google continues this is because they make money from search, but if they had to make money from phones they'd have gone under.

Yes that's the point, google can still have make money despite samsung copying by using different strategy.

But they don't make money from the phones.

Thats not the point thats the cautionary tale. Google literally makes money only on its proprietary search and ad business.

Then only because of that can waste money on open source technology that can make no money because its open source.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#193

Post by Fricken » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:08 AM UTC

rStar wrote: post #141

matz1 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, if you are the original creator you have advantage the copier doesn't have. Another way is to provide customized personalized solution. That would be very hard to copy. How is these pathetic? Either way you have to adapt or left behind.

its pathetic because its a disingenuous argument offered to prop up the side of the oppressor. the type of business scenario you describe is an edge case, and you are arguing as if it were the only case.

In Canada, in high school, we learned about Sam Slater. He is affectionately known as the father of the American factory system, but in Britain he was known as 'Slater the traitor', because he built the American factory system using stolen IP. Has nobody here heard of this guy?

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#194

Post by jkhdigital » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:20 AM UTC

For some reason, after reading this article and a bunch of the comments here, I'm reminded of two quotes from two of my favorite authors:

"Standards of living far below what we would consider to be poverty have been the norm for untold thousands of years. It is not the origins of poverty which need to be explained, since the human species began in poverty. What requires explaining are the things that created and sustained higher standards of living."

from Wealth, Poverty and Politics by Thomas Sowell

"Modernity needs to understand that being rich and becoming rich are not mathematically, personally, socially, and ethically the same thing."

from The Bed of Procrustes: Philosophical and Practical Aphorisms by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#195

Post by justinclift » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:30 AM UTC

croutonwagon wrote: post #109

justinclift wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be missing content. :(

What content is it missing. It has the entire article text and hyperlinks that I can tell.

???

Let's start with the very first paragraph from the original:

  President Trump said last month that talks for a phase 2
  trade agreement with China were on the back burner. If
  they ...

Let's look at the very first paragraph from the "Outline" version:

  I would bring experience, design, engineering and related
  technologies developed over my 40-year career in the
  automotive industry building race cars and ...

Those are clearly different, which means the Outline one is missing content and not fit for purpose.

I didn't bother checking for further differences. There may or may not be any, none of which really matters given the Outline one is incomplete.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#196

Post by oger » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:36 AM UTC

The real question here is: Is it getting better? For example Alibaba is putting a lot of effort into combating fraud (I.e. fake products) on its platform. The Chinese government also made serious moves. Does IP theft exist and is it serious? For sure. Is it getting better? Probably yes. Does being in an election year help to have realistic reporting on this issue? Probably not. And BTW have a look at how Japan grew in the 60s and 70s.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#197

Post by balola » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:47 AM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #164

runnerup wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, this was an excellent read for myself, an English-speaking American. It's interesting how much of a big story this is locally for that city. Are Chinese news stories often this long and detailed? Is it extra newsworthy because Saleen / "Sailin" vehicle manufacturing was part of that province's five year plan? Or would this have gotten the same coverage regardless?

The story enough fishy to look like a scam even by Chinese standards. 1. Doing business in China? Do it without govt. involvement. The less you see those guys the better. 2. Never do any joint ventures. Never deal with stocks, and public companies. 3. See a well wisher popping up on your doorstep with a business proposal? Turn the guy around, he is a scam. 4. Don't be public about your business, be as obscure as poss…

I didn't read the article until now, it reads exactly like what I said, a capital play.

Yet shocking still, it mentions Youth Motors/Qingnian Automobile/青年汽车 as Saleen's neighbor and former plant owner, my god, this is beyond stupid.

Youth Motors made the news last years after its "tech breakthrough of cars powered by water", which in reality is just ineffcient water-to-hygrogen onboard, it became a national joke, it also received huge amounts of government investment and apprently still doing fine right now.

This is the result of local governments not having to pay their debts, it's a feast.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#198

Post by unishark » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #79

Honestly I don't have much problem with protectionism. Flagrant theft is no good, but when the companies enter in the domestic partnership the IP transfer is rather more de jure. And if China didn't take any IP they would continue to be massively under-developed and just a source of cheap labor, be cause there's no way in hell US companies would have willingly fostered higher skills, higher pay there. Let's face it,…

> And if China didn't take any IP they would continue to be massively under-developed and just a source of cheap labor, be cause there's no way in hell US companies would have willingly fostered higher skills, higher pay there.

We sell the training for those skills to anyone willing to pay as part of a huge education industry. You can just buy the textbooks on amazon or get many of them along with any other materials for free.

Smaller countries in the west who couldn't possibly stand up the the big "bully" economies, and less developed regions like the US south, all have developed right up the cutting-edge with everyone else. They became developed by simply playing the game according to the rules. The real problem with developing countries is the ability tofollow those rules. The culture isn't fully-formed yet and some people are unclear on the line between stealing/scamming versus legitimate business. That doesn't mean stealing and scamming are a necessary part of development. It's the corruption that holds it back. Economic growth is based on people taking risks and making deals, which needs security and trust between them.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#199

Post by chrischen » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

DeonPenny wrote: post #127

matz1 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't see an answer outside of decoupling Maybe stop relying on IP as your business strategy ? Always be innovating so that you always be one step ahead those who copying.

If you have to keep doing that why would you. If I wanted to start a company the smart thing to do would create a company called Orange Computers, steal a modified version of iOS call it iOP and then undercut apple because I didn't have to pay for RnD

What you have described is Android haha. But in all seriousness Apple is still considered the more "premium" handset.

Re: How Chinese Officials Hijacked My Company

#200

Post by freddie_mercury » Sun, Aug 09, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #188

magicsmoke wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read in a paper somewhere that a big part of why Chinese auto manufacturers aren't as successful as Japanese or Korean ones is because they're too tied to the local government to fail. Each province in China has their own local auto company connected to the provincial government, resulting in a lot of duplicated effort and inefficiency. Japan and Korea had a lot of indigenous auto makers when they first started…

Japan has a very long tradition of quality and striving for perfection. China, not so much. And cars these days really need to be more than “good enough” to compete worldwide.

Japan's worldwide reputation was "garbage, low-quality stuff" until the 1960s. That's not a "very long tradition".

"At first, Japan had a widely held reputation for shoddy exports, and their goods were shunned by international markets"

For a pop-culture example look at the Back To The Future movie where the 1955 version of Dr. Brown says "No wonder this circuit failed. It says 'Made in Japan'." The 1985 version of Marty says "What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan."