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Oatly: The New Coke?

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Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#331

Post by matthewaveryusa »

Bootwizard wrote: post #247
lapinot wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cow milk is perfectly fine to drink for a good percentage of people There's no debating that milk is heavy to digest, more so than water infused with whatever you want (tea, rice, soy, oat, almond...), whatever your ancestry. You actually need some enzyme to cut it down so that you can metabolize it. This process doesn't exist for infused water. > The solution then is to just not drink milk, not substitute it with…

At least where I'm from in the US, there is no "bulk goods aisle" in the grocery. It makes it a hell of a lot harder to eat healthy because we have no alternatives to canned and packaged goods in many categories of foods.

Amazon works for bulk nuts, as well as Costco.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#332

Post by harimau777 »

seanwilson wrote: post #131
mcculley wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hosted a meetup on “dairy tech”. Before the presentation, I think I had an implicit assumption that cattle raised for beef were treated poorly. I came away realizing that cattle used for milk production suffer more. In the most efficient dairies, they never leave their enclosure, are kept pregnant continuously via artificial insemination, and are injected with hormones.

> I came away realizing that cattle used for milk production suffer more. I think you could certainly argue that. Beef cows are slaughtered at around 3 years and diary cows are slaughtered at around 5 years but after giving birth with their offspring taken away several times (both have about a 20 year life span). Personally, I don't understand how vegetarians justify it as being much different in terms of animal crue…

My understanding is that it's significantly easier to eat a healthy vegetarian diet than a healthy vegan diet. Therefore, it seems to me that vegetarianism is a reasonable compromise.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#333

Post by kiliantics »

Asooka wrote: post #198
vanilla-almond wrote: post #150

I drink milk, but I think the strongest case against drinking cows milk is industrial-scale dairy farming. We (consumers) are to blame because we want milk as cheap as possible. We've seen protests across Europe in the past by farmers who say they can't provide milk at such cheap prices and maintain welfare standards. Unfortunately, we consumers seem unwilling to pay for high welfare. Sure we say otherwise when asked…

> We (consumers) are to blame No, the farmers are to blame. This is the kind of thing regulations solve. If we force the use of sustainable and ethical farming methods through regulation, like how we force producers to obey all other aspects of food safety and production, then the market will adjust to the new prices, whatever they may be.

The only way to make cattle farming sustainable is by doing far far less of it. Governments need to impose massive taxes on dairy and beef products in order to severely reduce their consumption. But they do the opposite and subsidise it instead, often to the point that we are throwing out viable animal products because there is too much of it.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#334

Post by matthewaveryusa »

lapinot wrote: post #216
Asooka wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim is that Oatly is not a good substitute for milk, and that cow milk is perfectly fine to drink for a good percentage of people, which I judge the article demonstrated satisfactorily. You can of course say you don't want to (or can't) drink milk for a very long list of absolutely fine reasons. The solution then is to just not drink milk, not substitute it with oat-canola slurry. Or you could reduce your consu…

> cow milk is perfectly fine to drink for a good percentage of people There's no debating that milk is heavy to digest, more so than water infused with whatever you want (tea, rice, soy, oat, almond...), whatever your ancestry. You actually need some enzyme to cut it down so that you can metabolize it. This process doesn't exist for infused water. > The solution then is to just not drink milk, not substitute it with…

This, absolutely. Making milk from almonds is silly easy and dirt cheap. Soak 1 cup of almonds overnight, drain, add 3:1 ratio of water to almond nuts. Blend. Strain. Done. Optionally make ricciarelli cookies from the almonds left behind :)

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#335

Post by rattray »

Nursie wrote: post #253
rattray wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which milk substitutes are better? Especially in the sense that they wouldn't be able to accrue complaints from an assailant as dogged as this writer.

"Innocent" branded oat milk-substitute contains no added oil of any kind, so all of his canola objections would be moot there. I guess it still contains oat sugars though, at 3.2g per 100ml (of 7g carbs per 100ml)

100ml == ~3.4oz, so that's probably still a pretty equivalent amount of sugar to oatly. Either way, they're pretty negligible – most juices have at least 20g sugar in a cup.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#336

Post by itsoktocry »

prepend wrote: post #324
rattray wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which milk substitutes are better? Especially in the sense that they wouldn't be able to accrue complaints from an assailant as dogged as this writer.

There are many milk substitutes that don’t have the sugar of Oatly, the ones I’ve tried are the unsweetened almond and coconut milks. I think they suck in coffee (so does Oatly) but they are good for cereal or smoothies or just liquid protein.

>just liquid protein.

Almond and coconut milk have very limited amounts of protein.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#337

Post by Legogris »

ejolto wrote: post #197
cribbles wrote: post #145

I'm sympathetic to marketing counterfactuals, so I wanted to like this article, but its claims did not sway me. - The appalling environmental footprint of the dairy industry was never addressed. - The canola oil claims cited were nowhere near conclusive (see twanvl and NotOscarWilde's comments below). - The nutritional comparison seemed to me to be more or less trivial. Okay, it's got a higher glycemic index and simi…

> The author engages in a little deceptive rhetoric himself by setting a 12oz serving as the baseline. Yeah what is up with that? 12 oz is over 340 ml, who puts that much milk in their coffee? I had to measure the volume of my coffee cup, it's 250 ml or 8.8 oz. I usually drink my coffee black, but if I do have milk in it it is usually a tenth of what the author uses. Unless the author is drinking a quarter gallon of…

In Sweden it's historically fairly normal to drink that much milk at least once day, in coffee or otherwise.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#338

Post by parineum »

seanwilson wrote: post #76

"Made for humans" also draws attention to the fact that the milk you're drinking from a cow is not being drank by the offspring of that cow like it normally would and many people don't realise you have to keep making diary cows give birth to get more milk. Newly born male cows are usually turned into veal in a few weeks and female cows are separated from their mothers so they don't drink the valuable milk. Milk givin…

I really don't have a problem with these things. I don't have a problem killing animals for food, even baby cows. I also don't have a problem killing animals that can't be properly cared for (hello PETA).

What I _do_ care about is how those animals are treated before they are killed. I am aware of the process for keeping dairy cows productive. I also am uncertain if the separation of calves and cows causes distress. I find it just as likely that assuming so is to anthropomorphize them. However, the reason I don't know the answer to that is because the treatment of farm animals in factory farms is far more concerning to me.

The biggest disconnect between vegans and non-vegans seems to be the assertion that animals can't be raised ethically for food. Instead of focusing on areas of commonality between each other, a distaste for the unnecessary suffering of animals, each party focuses on the disagreements and can't get anything done together.

Also, as an aside, the process you describe makes the cow's milk "made for humans" as much as anything is. Humans manipulate the cow's biology to produce milk for humans.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#339

Post by keenmaster »

1 cup of Oatly, which is a massive amount to put in your coffee, is 120 calories. That's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I put Oatly in my coffee every day and it's basically my breakfast.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#340

Post by bitexploder »

evgen wrote: post #204
bitexploder wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give avocado oil a shot. Great smoke point, no real flavor. I am allergic to avacado somehow and the oil doesn’t bother me.

Most allergies are to a protein in the thing you are allergic to, and refined oils that have a high smoke point usually have all of that removed (or it would cause the oil to smoke.) I have a peanut allergy but can eat anything fried by a cheap restaurant in Sysco peanut oil while I have had a reaction to something done by a three star restaurant because they used unrefined oil (looking at you Manressa...)

Makes sense. Good to know, thanks.
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