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Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

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Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#391

Post by dt3ft »

tomerico wrote: post #48

Unfortunately, game theory says that remote work will not stay once people can go back to work from the office safely. The reality is that there is a real advantage in working in person. Whether it’s increased trust, communication, or lower friction. We could see it pre-COVID in a he fact that there are barely any successful remote offices (let alone individuals). This means that employees would see advantages to com…

> game theory says

I'm curious as to what you base this statement on. Game theory is modeling of strategic interaction between two or more players in a situation containing set rules and outcomes. Did you create the actual model? Is there an insight you mind sharing?

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#392

Post by amf12 »

the_svd_doctor wrote: post #280
ksec wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k I am pretty sure even FAANG dont pay $300K for fresh grad.

Yeah they don’t pay $300K for a good undergrad who just graduated. More like $200K I would say (base + equity). It varies of course. But $300k would be a hell of a good offer.

> More like $200K I would say (base + equity).

Also $200K is on a higher end and depends on other offers, etc. Average is around $180K.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#394

Post by philliphaydon »

onion2k wrote: post #355
macNchz wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a big remote work advocate and have worked with some amazing European engineers. That said, having worked as an engineer in the US office of a early stage startup with a European office, the 5-9 hour time difference is a not-insignificant impediment when you’re resource constrained and moving fast. Even with great communication and good management, having little overlap during the day for realtime conversations m…

Why do people who are remote need to stick with 9-5 hours? Plenty of people hate those times, and would rather work later/earlier, which could well lead to more congruent schedules.

In Singapore we are working from home due to the Wuhan Virus. I shifted my hours to start around 1pm to better align with our London office. I think it’s much better as I’m not a morning person so I feel far more productive.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#395

Post by DrBazza »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #345
james412 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd honestly work for the folk responsible for the BitBucket redesign, or the 6 billion lines of dynamic JS loaded for every Jira page? I'd sooner work the curb while living in a coal bunker

I know bashing on Jira is a popular pastime on HN, but I'm always surprised folks are not more introspective around why it's still so popular in the enterprise. It's because there are a million and one ways that teams like to work, and any one project has lots of different stakeholders with competing needs, and there really isn't any other tool that can scale out to this many use cases. I've certainly pulled my hair…

> why it's still so popular in the enterprise.

I was responsible for bring Jira into my team at 'megabank' not long after it launched around 2003/4, because the alternatives were horrific to set up and use. That was pretty much it.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#396

Post by sfjailbird »

As much as people like to complain about JIRA and Confluence, the very essence of corporateness, Atlassian is a great company for both customers and employees. Also, I have 'known' Mike Cannon-Brooks since twenty years ago when he was active in developer forums, good dude then, too. So nice to see engineer driven companies succeed and not forget the little guys.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#397

Post by t-writescode »

IshKebab wrote: post #386
gundmc wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Move somewhere cheaper I suspect.

Then your pay will be cut too. Lots of people think that is unfair because you are doing the same work, but those people just don't understand that salaries are market based. Also you might think "my company doesn't cut salaries", or "I just won't say I've moved". That might work if you stay at the same company for the rest of your life, but if you move jobs there's no way you'd get the same deal.

I believe that depends on the company. Facebook? Sure, I think I saw an article about that for Facebook. Other places? Maybe not.

Often times, there's plenty of places that are _totally_ within commuting distance, but really aren't. Do you think Facebook would lower someone's wages for living in Davis rather than Palo Alto or San Jose?

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#398

Post by _peeley »

I'm anxious to see what kind of macro trends arise from this, if it's still a popular policy post-pandemic. I'd predict that most industry jobs being remote by default would inevitably lead to a race to the bottom for wages, due to positions being far more competitive and able to effectively outsource to the lowest COL areas. For example, NPR has already experienced this[1] with its internship program this fall - after going remote, it led to a 10x increase in the number of applicants. [1] https://current.org/2020/08/how-to-find-a-pubmedia-job-in-a-...

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#399

Post by balfirevic »

mrweasel wrote: post #334
war1025 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying these are standard benefits in Europe? You didn't make it clear in your post, though I think that must be the angle you're coming from.

Except for the 13th month bonus, I’d say it’s pretty basic. You’d get those benefits working at a supermarket. Five weeks vacation is a legal minimum. Most companies I worked for here in Denmark will give you six. It’s technically not five weeks, but 25 days.

> Five weeks vacation is a legal minimum

No, it's not. It might be in some European countries, though.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#400

Post by zhte415 »

macNchz wrote: post #248
ryanSrich wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is hilarious to me as someone that has hired devs from Europe for a while now. Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.

I’m a big remote work advocate and have worked with some amazing European engineers. That said, having worked as an engineer in the US office of a early stage startup with a European office, the 5-9 hour time difference is a not-insignificant impediment when you’re resource constrained and moving fast. Even with great communication and good management, having little overlap during the day for realtime conversations m…

It can work, but not necessarily for all people.

The biggest time gap team I've worked on was east coast US and China.

Great. 12 hour gap.

US team changed to being in the office, or at least online, at 6am. China team started at 11am in China. Roughly a 3 hour handover time.

It worked.

But for some was a toil. When interviewing and taking pains to point this out, the usual response being "Ok, no problem" but then a few months later seeing someone looking visibility drained wasn't good. Helped them find an alternative role. And some loved it, especially the reduced traffic and sense of community.

During this handover period everyone had a webcam on their OC, a fair amount of travel between sites which all participants were excited for on and three US-China marriages happened over the years.

Great for some. Terrible for others.

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