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Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

arstechnica.com

21–30 of 217 posts

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not my area, but I read Google's AI blog and they seem to be doing machine learning research that ends up in its phones, such as various camera improvements and offline Google Translate. It seems like it's the sort of thing you do when you can, but often it comes as a second phase after getting it to work in the data center. I didn't see anything in this article that was obviously unique to Apple.

I think a lot of people have underrated the benefits Apple reaps in this area from being so far ahead in chip design and controlling their hardware. As regards to successfully productizing ML I’ve recently become convinced that Apple has been more successful at it than Google so far. Translation was already well within Google’s wheelhouse and they had been doing it for years, and their work with cameras is going to i…

Pixel is Google being aware of their handicap in this in-house hardware prototyping and research area, and ironically and obviously and predictably for Google, they apply ML to it too.

Apple can come at this same problem from the hardware and software sides all at once, with their own internal dev cycles aligning with the yearly iOS/iPadOS software drops, and iPhone/iPad hardware drops timed to a month or two of each other, year after year. Sure, it’s buggy as hell, but it still works better than Android. One would hope so, since you can’t do proper sideloading, as Android natively supports.

Apple’s security argument is a childlike excuse for not doing one’s homework, not a reasonable justification for Apple unreasonably and intentionally feature-gating iOS and iPadOS devices. I’m an owner and I’m root. I fully control devices I own because that is a Natural Right of exclusive ownership of hardware devices under American First Sale Doctrine, which has also been recognized by the Library of Congress as Constitutionally-protected usage to preserve inalienable rights to nondiscrimination in computing devices.

So Apple can take a hike. We’re getting what we need, and we’re getting bugs fixed. Jailbreaking has surfaced more 0days than jailbreak devs squirrel away for the next rainy day after iOS updates. We need native full root support, full stop.

These research phones have landmines everywhere in the license agreements to get one, and I’m not re-buying an iPhone I already own to get half-assed fakeroot, especially when I’m already running as root on all the iPhones I ever bought. It’s not hard to avoid updates and save blobs, but should we really have to intentionally run old, known-insecure builds just to have r/w and root? Is this a mainframe? This is a joke.

https://developer.apple.com/programs/security-research-devic...

What is Apple even arguing against? It’s not reality, that ought to be clear. They’re arguing for increased and continued profits for Apple, at the cost of our rights being trampled and violated, and were supposed to accept that they had our best interests at heart via increased security? Tell me another joke. Benjamin Franklin and me’ll be here all life.

The lack of free sideloading without a $99/year dev ticket is a joke. The scraps we get with 7 days between resigning apps is a joke. Devs are forced to abuse TestFlight to distribute apps which would otherwise be listed on App Store, if not for developers’ fears of App Store rejection, and potentially TestFlight revokes.

There’s gotta be a better way, but jailbreaking is the best we’ve got, for now. To that point, the Jailbreak Bot on Telegram is a public service, as is saurik himself and the entire reddit community r/jailbreak.

https://t.me/rJailbreakBot

https://old.reddit.com/r/jailbreak

All that being said, Apple really is in a league of its own, with the market capitalization to back it up; Apple has features found in other companies while simultaneously being unlike every other company on Earth.

[Current]

https://developers.google.com/ml-kit/vision/object-detection...

[2018]

https://www.fastcompany.com/90247454/the-pixel-3-puts-google...

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#22
post #3

This piece is interesting because Apple was saying this all along but no one really believed them because it sounded like excuse making. But here JG is basically saying the same thing: >Yes, I understand this perception of bigger models in data centers somehow are more accurate, but it's actually wrong. It's actually technically wrong. It's better to run the model close to the data, rather than moving the data around…

Well, google’s predictive keyboard and speech to text leave Apple in the dust. As does their voice assistant. So... yes?

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#23
post #3

This piece is interesting because Apple was saying this all along but no one really believed them because it sounded like excuse making. But here JG is basically saying the same thing: >Yes, I understand this perception of bigger models in data centers somehow are more accurate, but it's actually wrong. It's actually technically wrong. It's better to run the model close to the data, rather than moving the data around…

When it comes to machine learning, the subtlety here is that there are at least two sides or facets to machine learning: (1) training and (2) inference.

It's fair to say that there are multiple areas for AI leadership.

It is generally believed that:

Model Creation

(1) Those with the access to the best (which is not necessarily the most, but often believed to be) data have a strong starting point for training models; because of this Google, Facebook, and Microsoft have often been attributed to have this advantage due to the nature of their businesses.

Model Application

(2) Inference/prediction at the edge, e.g. on-device, is believed to be the best point for applying those models; this can be for a variety of reasons, including latency and other costs associated with sending model input data from edge sensors/devices. Some applications are entirely impractical or likely impossible to achieve without conducting inference on-device. Privacy-preservation is also a property of this approach. Depending on how you want to view this, this property could be a core design principle or a side-effect. Apple's hardware ecosystem approach and marketshare (i.e. iPhones) provide a strong starting point for making the technology ubiquitous for consumer experiences.

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#24
post #22
post #3

This piece is interesting because Apple was saying this all along but no one really believed them because it sounded like excuse making. But here JG is basically saying the same thing: >Yes, I understand this perception of bigger models in data centers somehow are more accurate, but it's actually wrong. It's actually technically wrong. It's better to run the model close to the data, rather than moving the data around…

Well, google’s predictive keyboard and speech to text leave Apple in the dust. As does their voice assistant. So... yes?

I’m not an Apple fankid but the predictive keyboard and speech to text work wonderfully on my iPhone and I use Siri everyday with no problems. Google’s is probably better, but the different is not a meaningful one from what I can tell.

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#25
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person's slurping is another's always accessible

It could still be always accesible, without the middleman actually being able to read the data.

Yes, but also no. It's a less convenient flow, and indexing and such would be trickier than either centralized or on device, since you'd need to encrypt and distribute the index as well (or do homomorphic encryption, but I don't think it's ready for the limelight.)

I think most people are probably fine with the tradeoff between convenience and features that centralization offers, so unfortunately people that aren't are stuck with more niche products (or Apple, I suppose, although I don't think i-cloud is end to end encrypted?). I say they're stuck with niche products because I don't think it makes sense to try and offer a slider between convenience and privacy in one product, since the interface and feature sets would be so different.

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#26
Apple's AI work is decent for what it is, and their AI hardware is fine too, but so much of this article is just weird.

It starts by talking about how until recently Apple wasn't doing AI work where it needed to be. Then there's the weird excerpt where he claims Google is “not known for shipping consumer experiences that are used by hundreds of millions of people.” The author then raises the legitimate point that AI benefits from having lots of data to train on, but then quotes an answer by Giannandrea to a different question, which includes him stating that bigger models aren't more accurate than smaller ones. The point that on-device inference is more responsive is valid but not unique to Apple; the article says “Android phones don't do nearly as wide an array of machine learning tasks locally”, but I don't think this is true.

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#27

Show don't tell. You don't lead in AI or anything else by insisting everybody who noticed you're bad at something "has it wrong".

Did you read the article? The whole point was that Apple has innovated but that they don’t make a big deal out of it. Marketing, basically.

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#28

Apple is behind in AI. Google has Google Lens, real-time transcription of audio recordings, live captions. And Google Assistant is leaps and bounds ahead of Siri in nearly every way. What is there in AI that Google doesn't beat Apple at?

Marketing

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#29
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, google’s predictive keyboard and speech to text leave Apple in the dust. As does their voice assistant. So... yes?

I’m not an Apple fankid but the predictive keyboard and speech to text work wonderfully on my iPhone and I use Siri everyday with no problems. Google’s is probably better, but the different is not a meaningful one from what I can tell.

As someone that bought the first Android phone and now has an iPhone...it is extremely noticeable how much better Android is on these fronts. But depending on the person that gap may not be important. For me, it is night and day. I felt Google had a long way to go on these fronts, so I was stunned at just how bad Apple was :(.

Re: Why Apple believes it’s an AI leader–and why it says critics have it all wrong

#30
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, google’s predictive keyboard and speech to text leave Apple in the dust. As does their voice assistant. So... yes?

I’m not an Apple fankid but the predictive keyboard and speech to text work wonderfully on my iPhone and I use Siri everyday with no problems. Google’s is probably better, but the different is not a meaningful one from what I can tell.

If we're just going to give anecdotes, I'm usually an Apple fankid but I get super annoyed by autocorrect on iPhone. The Google one when I've used it does seem a lot better, and also faster.
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