Why is this idiot running my engineering org? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#71

Post by JadeNB » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:40 AM UTC

mesozoic wrote: post #66

Why do people still use the term white supremacists to imply some nefarious group? The term has lost all value and is now used in mainstream best selling books and media to describe every white person. It literally now has no meaning and whenever anyone uses it I just think they're hunting the boogey man.

> Why do people still use the term white supremacists to imply some nefarious group? The term has lost all value and is now used in mainstream best selling books and media to describe every white person.

What is an example of mainstream best selling books or media that use it that way? (I mean which specifically, not just in the sense of "it feels that it's used so much that it might as well mean that.")

I'd argue, even if you are right about this useage, that "white supremacist" should still be used to describe white supremacist activities—responding to the dilution of a word by refusing to use it at all does no-one any good—and that activities properly so described should be regarded as nefarious.

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#72

Post by nabilhat » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:41 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #17

Sorry, the story totally lost me after she was describing the interaction with the FBI. I did not easily take away some conclusion about what she had done wrong or what deep pile of shit she had just created for herself, or what on 2 paths she had just chosen incorrectly, or daringly? (The paragraph ending, "I trusted the FBI to be good at their jobs." The next paragraph jumps right to generalizations, and I didn't c…

Yes. I was horrified at the point of:

> ...he closes the door and takes out his badge. “I have to show you this first.”

This job is not near the level of encountering FBI interviews as an actually critical part of work. "How about we circle back when I have legal counsel present" is the least perilous interaction at this point.

> “Oh wait, I forgot something. Could you raise your right hand for a minute?” Confused. I did so. “Everything you told me today is true to the best of your knowledge?”

I mean, the badge part was enough. The 18 U.S.C. § 1001 anvil has already been suspended over your head for 6 years. This is simply cruel.

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#73

Post by Nightshaxx » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

vezycash wrote: post #48

patja wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who is the idiot? It was really interesting until it became extremely general and vague. It almost makes it sound like Matt Cutts is the idiot since he's the only specific manager mentioned.

>And who is the idiot? Short summary: Woznaik vs Jobs. The technical guy vs. the smooth talker. Longer summary: Some people are perpetual resume builders. They want quick promotion, bigger job titles, higher salary... The ladder growth is their reward. And they'll avoid anything that jeopardizes their career path. They'll grab the glory for good stuff and push the blame for bad stuff. The hacker, risk taker on the ot…

I don't know much about if jobs pushed blame, but I read a book written by someone who worked closely with him. He actually had a really great talent which was understanding the consumer. He knew how to market and sell the products and forced through changes to do so.

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#74

Post by irontinkerer » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

keenmaster wrote: post #67

pdonis wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She has a manager who (apparently) has a low tolerance for risk. He probably got to where he is by spinning situations so that it's not his fault. He was upset that she contacted the FBI about a situation and took on more risk than he was comfortable with. I get that this appears to be the conclusion the author wants you to draw. But what's missing, to me, is that she has provided no evidence whatever to support it…

She’s probably holding back for various reasons, despite the sensational title. You have to read between the lines.

Holding back? She names her employer and her boss yet doesn’t give anything concrete, but feels okay to call him an “idiot” in the title?

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#75

Post by reincarnate0x14 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:57 AM UTC

This may seem obvious to older people that have navigated highly structured organizations for a while, but it's a good insight.

I've used a similar "bushido vs bureaucracy" dichotomy in the past. Leadership necessitates accepting that failures will occur, planning on how to handle them, and learning from them. Sadly in the US at least, we've had decades of implicit training otherwise and it shows up as a paucity of adults in the room when problems that aren't bullshittable come around.

The "don't rock the boat" mentality that makes people accept all kinds of personal risk aversion and cognitive dissonance is rife in any organization that is putting money in people's wallet. Delaying the consequences of any decision or event until after your last paycheck works when enough people buy into it, sort of a meta-Ponzi scheme of responsibility that facilitates the real Ponzi scheme of getting paid today on tomorrow's bill.

Sort of tangential, but if you find this article whatever combination of interesting or eye-opening, you may want to read Locke's Confronting Managerialism. (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11532185-confronting-man...)

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#76

Post by centimeter » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:57 AM UTC

> If someone had told me that one of my employees was hunting white supremacists with the FBI I wouldn’t have to ask who it was because, of course it’s you. It’s always you.

This is obviously heavily embellished by the sort of person who’s really into Harry Potter as an adult.

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#77

Post by archgoon » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:57 AM UTC

ajhurliman wrote: post #31

supernova87a wrote: post #17

Sorry, the story totally lost me after she was describing the interaction with the FBI. I did not easily take away some conclusion about what she had done wrong or what deep pile of shit she had just created for herself, or what on 2 paths she had just chosen incorrectly, or daringly? (The paragraph ending, "I trusted the FBI to be good at their jobs." The next paragraph jumps right to generalizations, and I didn't c…

Here's a summary that combines the two sections: She has a manager who (apparently) has a low tolerance for risk. He probably got to where he is by spinning situations so that it's not his fault. He was upset that she contacted the FBI about a situation and took on more risk than he was comfortable with. She sees herself as someone who enjoys the trappings of a job well done and doesn't mind her slow progress of ladd…

> She has a manager who (apparently) has a low tolerance for risk. He probably got to where he is by spinning situations so that it's not his fault. He was upset that she contacted the FBI about a situation and took on more risk than he was comfortable with.

I seriously doubt that it was the intent of the author to accuse Matt Cutts as someone who spun blame onto others and avoided responsibility.

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#78

Post by shadowgovt » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:01 AM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #65

ajhurliman wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a summary that combines the two sections: She has a manager who (apparently) has a low tolerance for risk. He probably got to where he is by spinning situations so that it's not his fault. He was upset that she contacted the FBI about a situation and took on more risk than he was comfortable with. She sees herself as someone who enjoys the trappings of a job well done and doesn't mind her slow progress of ladd…

> She has a manager who (apparently) has a low tolerance for risk. He probably got to where he is by spinning situations so that it's not his fault. He was upset that she contacted the FBI about a situation and took on more risk than he was comfortable with. I get that this appears to be the conclusion the author wants you to draw. But what's missing, to me, is that she has provided no evidence whatever to support it…

The missing piece of the puzzle is that we never meet the idiot manager in the story. She's in an organizational situation where her team has oversight over a team in the government implementing on a project but does not have the ability to directly set policy, constrain goals, or otherwise apply direct managerial leverage. The idiot in the story is the guy charging full speed ahead with a deployment of a product that is already known compromised. Matt Cutts, meanwhile, is the head of her department, and also has no managerial oversight over the team she just called federal law enforcement on.

Because she is incentivized to make the product as good as possible, not hit deadlines and satisfy arbitrary legislative targets divorced from software engineering reality, it never occurred to her how much s* she was going to cause for the people in the direct chain of management by getting the FBI involved. It's probably the right thing to do... Ultimately, the software was compromised by domestic terrorists and the threat was real. But she's basically just wrecked any goodwill she had working with this department for the foreseeable future (especially if it turns out that somebody in the management chain that she has oversight over has actually managed to break the law due to negligence ;) ).

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#79

Post by ed25519FUUU » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

nabilhat wrote: post #72

supernova87a wrote: post #17

Sorry, the story totally lost me after she was describing the interaction with the FBI. I did not easily take away some conclusion about what she had done wrong or what deep pile of shit she had just created for herself, or what on 2 paths she had just chosen incorrectly, or daringly? (The paragraph ending, "I trusted the FBI to be good at their jobs." The next paragraph jumps right to generalizations, and I didn't c…

Yes. I was horrified at the point of: > ...he closes the door and takes out his badge. “I have to show you this first.” This job is not near the level of encountering FBI interviews as an actually critical part of work. "How about we circle back when I have legal counsel present" is the least perilous interaction at this point. > “Oh wait, I forgot something. Could you raise your right hand for a minute?” Confused. I…

Always lawyer up. As we’ve learned in the last few years, the FBI loves to catch people “lying” to agents as a precursor to persecuting them for political reasons.

Re: Why is this idiot running my engineering org?

#80

Post by keenmaster » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 2:03 AM UTC

irontinkerer wrote: post #74

keenmaster wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She’s probably holding back for various reasons, despite the sensational title. You have to read between the lines.

Holding back? She names her employer and her boss yet doesn’t give anything concrete, but feels okay to call him an “idiot” in the title?

She never actually outright called her boss an idiot. The most literal interpretation of the title is "if you feel this way about your boss, then here is why you may feel that way." I certainly hope that was her intended meaning, because the counterfactual is very risque. I did think the title was unnecessary though, and the naming.