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Microsoft Fast Design

fast.design

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Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#151

Check out the FAST Component explorer to see it in action: https://explore.fast.design/ Looks very flexible but the presentation and default design is horrible.

> the presentation and default design is horrible

Yes, many of the interactive elements look static. Anything built with this design would be very hard to use. And, as others have said, the accordion +/- buttons are reversed.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#152
post #53

To my understanding, the point of this system is not actually how its default component looks or how rich the default components set are. It's to provide a framework to create Custom HTML Elements (which are browser native?) that we can re-use across projects with different front-end frameworks. e.g., Creating a React Button component using Fast Button like this: `const ReactButton = () => Button `

Okay, but how its default components look and how rich the default component set is is how you sell the benefits of such a component creation system. As it is, it makes it look like you can only make limited, badly designed components.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#153
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, Ionic Stencil is library to helps build webcomponents. Since fast.design are webcomponents, they can be used in any with any framework, no wrapping required.

> they can be used in any with any framework, no wrapping required. That's the selling point, but is not quite true. At least a while ago there was still some ceremony needed at least in React. You could say that that's React's fault, but it doesn't really matter whose fault it is - Web Components are different from standard DOM elements, and thus need special treatment from frameworks that interact with standard DOM…

They're not different from built-in elements and don't need special treatment.

The way that frameworks that work well with web components do it is be not giving special treatment to things. Vue, Angular, and lit-html all treat built-ins and custom elements then same, and they have different syntax for setting attributes and properties.

React treats elements different from components and sets properties on React components and attributes on HTML elements, with no syntax to set properties on elements. Then it special cases a list of attributes so that things like `class` map to `classList`.

So... remove special cases, add general abilities, and it all just works.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#154

Howdy! I'm the architecture lead on FAST at Microsoft. There's a great conversation here with lots of questions, so I thought I would chime in and try to clarify a few things. The first point of note is that FAST is built on Web Component standards. I see a number of comments that indicate some folks aren't familiar with Web Components. So, let me give a brief explanation. First, the term "Web Components" is an umbre…

This kind of information, and bits of your reply comment, should be part of the website. I found all the "That's FAST" paragraphs uninformative, and this much clearer (but I am not really a web developer).

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it hilarious that they put a dark mode toggle in the corner (why would I want this on a per-website basis?) They detect your OS preference and display their light/dark style automatically based on that [1]. The toggle is just there if you wanna switch it manually. My Mac is in dark mode but I usually prefer reading docs in light mode, so that toggle is handy. Agree that it should update the background of the…

If that's the case then I think you should take your Mac out of dark mode. If we have to put it in every app and webpage in a non-standard way, then that suggests that dark mode itself is broken. That it doesn't change the example on the web page seems like a giant oversight, or a rendering error on Safari.

It's there so developers can look at the components in both colour schemes.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#156
post #117

I always wonder where is the VB6/Windows Forms for web apps. I don't want to know the intricacies of Rect/Angular/Vue, I just want to do a declaration of the UI, not programming. Zillions of apps doing the same thing and spending weeks and months on the same problems. I start to think that this is not interesting for, for example, Microsoft because the developer market will shrink and their developers, developers, de…

> I always wonder where is the VB6/Windows Forms for web apps.

they tried. it's called asp.net webforms.

it sucked hard. bécause they forced event driven paradigm in a stateless environment (http) resulting to hacks (hello viewstate).

but hey it was my gateway drug into web development as a winforms guy. im the sucker and i shouldnt be complaining. but 15 years later im back to aspnet webforms because of legacy apps the client doesn't want to upgrade yet.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#157
post #52

I was looking at the code it looks optimized, will do a couple of tests later maybe combining this as the main webcomponent controller with something like tailwind css makes sense, but just using this plain look and feel I don't think it's viable at this moment but it's a good structural start I would say. Was looking forward to do this with lit so maybe I might test this and see how the code looks, from a code outpu…

maybe hook us up with a writeup later? im interested in whatever you find out.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#158
post #157
post #52

I was looking at the code it looks optimized, will do a couple of tests later maybe combining this as the main webcomponent controller with something like tailwind css makes sense, but just using this plain look and feel I don't think it's viable at this moment but it's a good structural start I would say. Was looking forward to do this with lit so maybe I might test this and see how the code looks, from a code outpu…

maybe hook us up with a writeup later? im interested in whatever you find out.

Sure I do write ups on linkedin follow me there: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramonck

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#159

Howdy! I'm the architecture lead on FAST at Microsoft. There's a great conversation here with lots of questions, so I thought I would chime in and try to clarify a few things. The first point of note is that FAST is built on Web Component standards. I see a number of comments that indicate some folks aren't familiar with Web Components. So, let me give a brief explanation. First, the term "Web Components" is an umbre…

thanks Rob! i agree with the other that parts of your reply should be included in the FAST homepage

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#160
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite, Ionic Stencil is library to helps build webcomponents. Since fast.design are webcomponents, they can be used in any with any framework, no wrapping required.

Web Components can't be directly used in React due to these limitations documented at https://custom-elements-everywhere.com/ Handling data React passes all data to Custom Elements in the form of HTML attributes. For primitive data this is fine, but the system breaks down when passing rich data, like objects or arrays. In these instances you end up with stringified values like some-attr="[object Object]" which can't…

This is a pain point of React + web components, but I’ve heard they’re trying to solve it in the next major version. In the meantime, I built a wrapper that lets you use custom elements as if they were React components. [1]

1 - https://shoelace.style/getting-started/usage?id=react

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