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Microsoft Fast Design

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Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#81

Post by CuddleBunny »

ggregoire wrote: post #66

For all the comments asking what's the difference between this and Bootstrap, Ant, jQuery UI, React, Vue and friends: Interfaces built with FAST adapt to your design system and can be used with any modern UI Framework by leveraging industry standard _Web Components_. The important word here is Web Components, which are like React or Vue components but using only standard HTML and JavaScript (no frameworks). I guess y…

The difference is that FAST is NOT a component library. It is a tool for building component libraries. The fast-components package is a showcase of what this library is capable of. You could use FAST to create web component libraries that consume bootstrap styles if you want. Microsoft is using this same base to write web components for Fluent UI (previously Office Fabric): https://www.npmjs.com/package/@fluentui/web-components

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#83

Post by Vinnl »

ggregoire wrote: post #66

For all the comments asking what's the difference between this and Bootstrap, Ant, jQuery UI, React, Vue and friends: Interfaces built with FAST adapt to your design system and can be used with any modern UI Framework by leveraging industry standard _Web Components_. The important word here is Web Components, which are like React or Vue components but using only standard HTML and JavaScript (no frameworks). I guess y…

> The important word here is Web Components, which is like React or Vue components but using only standard HTML and JavaScript (no frameworks).

I wouldn't say that - Web Components (by themselves) do not allow you to write your view as a function of application state, which is the main draw of at least React.

But the initial use case of Web Components is to create a standard that allows developers to iterate on the web's built-in components (inputs, date pickers, etc.) without having to wait on the standards track, and FAST appears to intend to provide a number of such components.

(And there is more to such components than just styling (which is what Bootstrap provides) - it's behaviour, usability by people reliant on e.g. screen readers, an API to access its data, etc.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#84

Post by CuddleBunny »

pcr910303 wrote: post #20

Ok, so it looks like the main point of this is fast-components, which is a just a bunch of components styled as MS-style, but I'm more interested in the fast-foundation package. According to the instructions: > The exports of this package can generally be thought of as un-styled base components that implement semantic and accessible markup and behavior. > it exports parts and pieces intended to be composed into Web C…

fast-foundation and fast-element are the main point of this. The components are mostly just a showcase. Though the MS-style set of components (https://www.npmjs.com/package/@fluentui/web-components) leveraging FAST will probably end up one of the most consumed products.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#85

Post by parksy »

pupdogg wrote: post #72
parksy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand what this definition of "frameworks" means in this exact context and I've been building websites since 1994, survived the XHTML collapse, etc etc... What's the main advantage here? That we have a standardised way of writing HTML markup so that CSS / JS knows how to operate on it? I'm almost certainly coming across as "old man yells at cloud" (lol just realised a pun there) but what would y…

Lol, love your comment! Funny thing is that there are more people on your side than what this community might tell you! Silence is golden for a reason ;)

I appreciate the support I guess but at the same time I don't understand what you mean by there are an unspecified number of people on my side and that silence is golden - either that means I should be quiet and join the throngs of the self-superior invisible some-jority which I think is condescending to the fine folk here, or it means I personally should be silent and not express my honest confusion, frustration and dismay. That's not going to happen either.

I did come out pretty strong in my apprehension but I am serious in wanting to know specifically what the benefit of this is, and I don't really care whether I am making a fool of myself for asking questions lol.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#86

Post by chrisweekly »

spankalee wrote: post #61
parksy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit - to thank everyone who took time out to explain what's going on - I'm still cynical but it all makes more sense now. I also like to think the ignorant guy asking the ignorant questions (in this case me) can sometimes be valuable for others who aren't in the club. Previous rant intact below for fun and hijinks. --- As a jaded old web developer I've seen so many frameworks along the way all promising this and tha…

> Come on. We'd have to re-write everything to use this library specifically That is not how web components work. Web components are just HTML elements, so any framework that can use HTML can use web components. That's what sharing across different, incompatible frameworks means.

"just HTML elements"

-- which depend on Javascript and have no good answer to "what about SSR"?

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#87

Post by flowerlad »

nojvek wrote: post #74

Have >3 years of experience working with web components full time. 1) Their templating library has a learning curve. It's not quite like svelte, nor like JSX. If you have templates as strings that aren't typechecked, it makes it really hard to work on large code bases where the components are built by someone else and you're the consumer. I remember breaking powerbi.com due to missing > in an angular template that en…

You can use JSX to implement as well as consume Web Components. See here: https://github.com/wisercoder/uibuilder

This gives you compile-time checks, and attributes can be objects.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#88

Post by CuddleBunny »

nojvek wrote: post #74

Have >3 years of experience working with web components full time. 1) Their templating library has a learning curve. It's not quite like svelte, nor like JSX. If you have templates as strings that aren't typechecked, it makes it really hard to work on large code bases where the components are built by someone else and you're the consumer. I remember breaking powerbi.com due to missing > in an angular template that en…

The template strings are sort of typed, using tagged template literals. These even come with editor support using extensions previously built for lit-html and the like.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#89

Post by ramon »

chrisweekly wrote: post #82

Web Components, as a standard, remain problematic. Among other things, they fail to address the critical need for server-side rendering.

I don't think that was the objetive of Web Components at all but to really create open standards around what React started a long time ago. Server-side rendering is not going away ever, there will always be a way to optimize things and to do tree-shaking and all so don't think that a new technology replaces everything else the rest of the eco-system will still remain with a clear purpose. You can do a small little project without builds and all but every "real" project will still need a build process in the end this concept was inherited from Continuous Integration and it's not going away.

Re: Microsoft Fast Design

#90

Post by felipeccastro »

parksy wrote: post #67
spankalee wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Come on. We'd have to re-write everything to use this library specifically That is not how web components work. Web components are just HTML elements, so any framework that can use HTML can use web components. That's what sharing across different, incompatible frameworks means.

I honestly don't understand what this definition of "frameworks" means in this exact context and I've been building websites since 1994, survived the XHTML collapse, etc etc... What's the main advantage here? That we have a standardised way of writing HTML markup so that CSS / JS knows how to operate on it? I'm almost certainly coming across as "old man yells at cloud" (lol just realised a pun there) but what would y…

Frameworks mean React, Vue, Angular, etc. Usually, if you make a TextInput component in React, you can't use it in Vue and vice-versa. If you create a web component, then you can use it in any of these frameworks (or with no framework at all), like a native html tag.
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