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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#881

Post by burkaman »

cwhiz wrote: post #685
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

China doesn’t allow many western companies to operate in China. Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US?? This is an outrage that we should not allow. They steal our intellectual property, create state funded companies that are given monopoly access to their markets, and then unleash their stolen products on the world market. And if American or other western companies try to compete on the grou…

> Why should the US allow Chinese companies to operate in the US??

For the same reasons that China should allow American companies to operate in China.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#882

Post by KKKKkkkk1 »

hintymad wrote: post #381
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

I don't think that's reciprocity. China has punished its citizens for being born in China by banning FB et al. In response, the US has punished its own citizens by banning WeChat et al. Reciprocity would mean that Xi is banned from using Facebook while Trump is banned from WeChat.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#883

Post by exclusiv »

xvector wrote: post #620
factsaresacred wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But having the president order arbitrary punishment without proof of guilt (what happened to presumption of innocence?) looks like a dictatorship to me Extremely naive view. China is a totalitarian state that can compel its companies to hand over all private data if asked. In your rosy "presumption of innocence" scenario, by the time they're proven guilty it's too late. This is preemptive measure that is a prelude…

By your logic we should start arresting citizens that are likely to commit crimes. It goes against every definition of justice there is.

Every country has different rules for their citizens versus those for foreign entities.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#884

Post by what_ever »

baddox wrote: post #878
moate wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then how do you stop China from doing the bad thing?

Is that relevant? Do you think this will make any difference in China’s internal policies?

It make difference to your country's companies to make business there.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#885

Post by will4274 »

jdietrich wrote: post #873
godtoldmetodoit wrote: post #847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly doubt China has more levers then the US when it comes to a trade war. China can't feed itself past subsistence level without imports. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-feeding-china/ China runs on oil just like every other modern economy, and they have pitiful amounts locally. They are the largest importer in the world and they absolutely need it to keep flowing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemen…

>China can't feed itself... China runs on oil That's only a problem if the rest of the world sides with the US in a US-China trade dispute. There are plenty of net exporters of oil and food who would be very happy to sell to China and would be rather pleased to see the US get a bloody nose. >All we have to do is no longer put merchants heading toward China under the US navies protection and the CCP will be in serious…

> China has a large, modern and highly capable navy. They are perfectly able to protect their own shipping against piracy or any state-level actor that would be insane enough to start a naval war. In the event of a direct conflict, the American navy is largely defenceless against the Chinese ASBM capability.

Lmao. The US Navy has roughly 3x the strength of all the other navies in the world combined. If the US and China went to war, the US would control the seas in about a month.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#886

Post by cblconfederate »

zwaps wrote: post #341
bleepblorp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much impossible for lower-income countries to develop economically without protecting their emerging businesses from being slaughtered by established foreign competition. The priority of the Chinese government is the benefit of its citizens (leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens, as this is a separate issue) and its domestic economy, not the benefit of…

But does this exact argument not also justify the US and Europe to pursue their own interests? Isn’t that what Trump thinks he is doing? I mean, there is plenty of countries around Europe that are sort of doing worse than China, but are still strongarmed by these Chinese. Maybe the EU should also get in on this, not allowing any Chinese firms onside our borders. After all, our companies are even more fragile. A call…

The EU protects all sorts of industries, glaringly agriculture with CAP. I can see a case why we should have regulated social media, search and shopping platforms (which are highly monopolistic) a decade ago. The EU did not do any of that, and it's left with virtually zero digital footprint. Considering the importance of the digital economy for growth, it's quite logical to regulate itself to the the creation of a local market.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#887

Post by woopwoop »

njarboe wrote: post #872
baddox wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must do the same thing that we think is bad.”

Tit-for-tat has been found to be the most effective strategy in prisoner dilemma type situations. If China lets us into their markets then we will let them into ours. This was the whole point of letting China join the WTO, but China has completely ignored any rulings against it by the WTO courts. It not playing fairly. These individual trade sanctions by the US are the only way to make China keep up its end of the de…

Trade is basically the opposite of a prisoner's dilemma, though. Cooperation dominates defection.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#888

Post by baddox »

novok wrote: post #877
baddox wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must do the same thing that we think is bad.”

I think the principle of regulatory reciprocity is fairly standard. If country X has tarrifs on your goods, it's fairly standard to bring up the same tarrifs on their goods into your country. Same with visa laws. If country X defacto bans certain products and companies from operating/selling in their country on the basis of national origin and not product type, then I would assume eventually the same would happen on…

I think it’s not obvious that you can directly apply the logic of tariffs to (largely free) internet services provided by companies in other countries. You could make the argument that they should be treated the same, but I think the argument needs to be explicit rather than assumed.

Also, this entire mode of argument doesn’t address the idea that this is a national security or privacy issue.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#889

Post by suyash »

zuppy wrote: post #107
suyash wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumbstruck to find that there is a leader with a spine in this country? That's quite something.

If by xenophobia you mean spine, sure you have one. What do you think will happen next? What’s the message that we, the rest if the world, can take from this?

banning Chinese apps is xenophobic, yeah that's great logic.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#890

Post by baddox »

njarboe wrote: post #872
baddox wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow the logic of “China does something that we think is bad, therefore we must do the same thing that we think is bad.”

Tit-for-tat has been found to be the most effective strategy in prisoner dilemma type situations. If China lets us into their markets then we will let them into ours. This was the whole point of letting China join the WTO, but China has completely ignored any rulings against it by the WTO courts. It not playing fairly. These individual trade sanctions by the US are the only way to make China keep up its end of the de…

This doesn’t seem like a prisoner dilemma though, because I think there’s a good argument that the US is better off cooperating (allowing Tik Tok) than defecting regardless of China’s actions.
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