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Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

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Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MSFT did the same thing with Project when they introduced something called "Manually Scheduled Tasks." Project is fundamentally a critical path scheduling tool, or at least was. Task A must finish before Task B, which must complete before Task C. If A is delayed, then that delay pushes B and C out, too. This is what it's FOR, more or less. Manually scheduled tasks don't move. They're set with whatever dates you give…

> People wanted this because some (dumb) people insisted that "well, that task CANT move because it has to be done by then!" So? There are tasks like this that simply CANT move, why should a project management tool not have the ability to model that? If you don't like the feature you don't have to use it. I get that you wouldn't want these fixed dates and if you can just plan and execute your project by yourself, but…

This is such a "peak HN" kind of response.

I've been working with scheduling and project management tools for 20 years -- not just MS Project (widely regarded as the idiot cousin of the market, honestly) but also things like Primavera.

There's no reason to have a "manual" task in a scheduling tool.

First, if you have a task that can't move, you set it with a deadline and watch your deadline (as well as watching to see if the task moves PAST the deadline). Cementing the task in place doesn't help you; in fact, it actively HURTS you because it hides the fact that your forecast path isn't valid anymore.

Second, these tools ALSO include the idea of constraints. Scheduling tools include the idea of constraints which limit the critical path motion according to specific rules (based on the type of constraint in play).

Using ANY constraint, though, is frowned upon in serious scheduling circles precisely BECAUSE they distort the predictive ability of a critical path schedule. If Task C has a hard deadline of 1 Sept, then you watch you critical path to see if that remains possible. As tasks slip, you stay on top of the chain of tasks to seek opportunities to streamline or reduce scope ahead of critical task so that the deadline can be met.

(Guess what? It's not always possible.)

And you do this because you SEE that the schedule shows Task C moving to the right.

If you lock the task in place, odds are you won't notice that your critical path is collapsing.

The tl;dr is that cementing a task in place in a critical path schedule is not a good way to model deadlines. This is something any competent scheduler will tell you. It's part of the PMBOK, it's built into DoD scheduling guidelines, etc.

>Maybe there is more to Microsoft Project than just YOUR use-case?

Hilarious. I will say it's clear one of us doesn't quite understand the problem domain as well as they might represent, but given my background I know it's not me.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MSFT did the same thing with Project when they introduced something called "Manually Scheduled Tasks." Project is fundamentally a critical path scheduling tool, or at least was. Task A must finish before Task B, which must complete before Task C. If A is delayed, then that delay pushes B and C out, too. This is what it's FOR, more or less. Manually scheduled tasks don't move. They're set with whatever dates you give…

Project scheduling on works badly if you have resources 100% dedicated to a project. Trying to acurately forcast with partial resource is an exercise in madness.

On the very large programs I'm typically involved in, it's unusual to have a perfect resource pool like you describe. It's MORE likely that the whole thing is scheduled with job codes, and the labor pool is treated as elastic with additional people brought on as needed to fill roles as Electrical Engineer II or whatever.

Generally speaking, you can schedule just fine with partial resources as long as your project doesn't need more of a given resource at any given time than can be allocated to it. Really big construction projects and really big government (defense) contracts work like this.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excels usability isn't bad though. Which is why everyone uses it. It falls down in this (and lots of other cases) but if you want to see what good usability looks like, look at what people use.

Everyone uses Excel because it's a tool everybody learned at University or even highschool, nothing more, it's not because it's good at all. It's a terrible app but Microsoft managed to shove it everywhere in education. Same for Words. Unfortunately Libre Office and co tried to reproduce the terrible UX of both software, while coming up with inferior functionalities because they had to try to maximise compatibility w…

> because they had to try to maximise compatibility with these MS tools,

Worst excuse ever. Excel had to maximize compatibility with Lotus 1-2-3 (in the 80s/early 90s, the dominant spreadsheet application by far) from Day 1. It wasn't just that the files were compatible, Excel included keystroke compatibility so 1-2-3 experts could continue navigating the UI with their old commands.

Unlike the LibreOffice team, Microsoft made a superior program in virtually every way, despite the burden of backwards compatibility with another program.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#484
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Excel is fundamentally not suited to analysing *omics data you are 100% correct. and yet it will continue to happen.

Yes, and? It should be a simple checklist item for any scientific journal to ask the author whether they used excel or not. If they say yes, reject the paper unless they can show their work hasn't been affected negatively by using excel.

yeah but then you'll just make them use SAS and nobody wants that. just try convincing anyone who graduated two decades ago to use something reasonable like R

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#485
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are dozens of auto-formatting "features" that piss me off each and every day across all of Microsoft's products.

My pet hate: - use the mouse to select precisely the part of the word/URL/string you want for Ctrl-C purposes - it autocorrects your selection to the whole word including a CrLf if it is nearby. Aaargh!

Reading this comment caused me frustration.

The only workaround I've found to be effective is selecting a few letters on one end of your intended selection and using ctrl+arrows to precisely select.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#486
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in computational materials science (where ML brings funding) and a funny paper of this kind is here: https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.11... - they are literally trying out 100000s of possible combinations by brute force, to build a "physical model". Then they go on conferences and brag about it, because they have to (otr they know it's bs). Datasets are soso (you can have a look at QM9…

> (otr they know it's bs). Well, that's a new acronym for me. I wonder where it came from. Apparently it's "on the real". Sounds like AAVE?

> Well, that's a new acronym for me. I wonder where it came from. Apparently it's "on the real". Sounds like AAVE?

> AAVE

OK.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#487
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excel is stuck. It can't change this behavior if it cares about backwards compatibility. There are uncountably many recorded macros and all sorts of scripts and data tools everywhere, that implicitly and inadvertently depend on behavior like this. Like Javascript's warts, you have to declare these as features and live with them. Of course Microsoft has thought about this, it's silly to think they never have and we're…

> It can't change this behavior They could easily make it an optional behaviour.

They could even have it on by default, or rather, have “Excel NG/Matrix” be an optional no-quirk behaviour regimen.

They could have a scripting environment variable that is “quirkkMode=ON” by default and would maintain backwards compatibility at the small expense of needing to specify sane behaviour as an exceptional circumstance: just another line of boilerplate.

There’s a lot of things they could do. They’ve no doubt considered all of them and then some, and yet they‘c’è decided to do almost nothing. I suppose that says something about the disconnect between how we and they perceive their incentives, but I’m not sure what that assertion is.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#488
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS is the only proper format. It is sorted from the greatest unit (year) to the smallest unit (second). If you treat them as text and sort alphabetically they still get sorted from oldest to newest. Other formats don't sort properly. writing dd.mm.yyyy is like writing time ss:mm:hh writing mm/dd/yyyy is like writing time mm/ss/hh If I really have to put YYYY at the end of the date I use the 'dd-…

I agree with everything you are saying about sorting and I frequently use YYYY-MM-DD, however I do want to make one point: DD.MM.YYYY does make some human sense as a date format since the year is very rarely important (and if the year is actually important often the day is so unimportant that it can be left out), the month is sometimes important and the day is often the most relevant piece of information. So for any…

It’s a cultural thing: if I’m not mistaken the traditional Chinese system is Y-M-D and always has been.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#489
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you are saying about sorting and I frequently use YYYY-MM-DD, however I do want to make one point: DD.MM.YYYY does make some human sense as a date format since the year is very rarely important (and if the year is actually important often the day is so unimportant that it can be left out), the month is sometimes important and the day is often the most relevant piece of information. So for any…

I see where you are coming from, but I would argue that if you omit a part, it's not a date anymore.

Yes! It's not the first time I posted a rant on the net and found myself guilty of the sin the very next day. This time, a web app of mine has big tables full of dates, and I didn't quickly figure out a way to show the full date without too much clutter. So, I used "dd.mm" and postponed a finer design till next year. Guess what, this UI element hasn't changed in the next three years and today I finally stumbled on a bunch of records which really can't be deduced from context.

Re: Scientists rename human genes to stop MS Excel from misreading them as dates

#490
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The format dd.mm.yyyy using dots is the traditional German date format. > Since 1996-05-01, the international format yyyy-mm-dd has become the official standard date format https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Schools still teach DD.MM.YYYY. That’s what’s relevant because that’s what people actually widely use. Shouldn’t Americans be very familiar with the idea that official norms (the metric system) play no role if the people don’t want to use them?

I understand - it seems I was too optimistic to read that the use of yyyy-mm-dd has become "the official standard" in Germany, without considering the popular usage and convention under discussion.
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