The NYT is bootlicking with this article; they entirely left out that Seattle did defund their police, cutting their budget by about half. So did Portland. But NYT would rather focus on how scared business owners feel, because that's their target audience.
Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
41–50 of 159 posts
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#42People want security. That means different things to different people. Law enforcement is not necessarily the same thing as security. Law enforcement means just that, and the laws themselves may not be what many would consider just. The laws are likely to reflect the prejudices of those in power, which may lend itself to why we're seeing the clashes we're seeing in the US right now. Those with the resources to do so…
> Law enforcement is not necessarily the same thing as security
I'm having difficulty finding my source right now, but it appears that in cases of homicide by someone unknown to the victim, a police officer is the perpetrator in between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 incidents. These statistics don't consider whether the killing is justified; they just observe that if people know of someone who was killed by a stranger, there's a 1-in-3 or 1-in-4 chance that stranger has a uniform.
And as we know, people's perceptions of safety are more important than actual statistics. We rewrote the nature of air travel in response to 9/11.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#43I really hate that in typical US manner this issue gets pushed to the extreme so in the end a reasonable discussion can’t be had but it’s only a fight with everybody digging in and not listening to each other. Abolishing the police was always nonsense but there are plenty of areas where police is overused and too aggressive. In my view there shouldn’t be police in schools or hospitals. The drug war causes a lot of un…
Issues have to get pushed to the extreme because politicians drag their heels otherwise.
Corruption is the best business to be in. Police departments have no interest in oversight, beyond the amount necessary for leadership to protect their positions of power. And Police Unions are generally very powerful and dominate local politics.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#44I really hate that in typical US manner this issue gets pushed to the extreme so in the end a reasonable discussion can’t be had but it’s only a fight with everybody digging in and not listening to each other. Abolishing the police was always nonsense but there are plenty of areas where police is overused and too aggressive. In my view there shouldn’t be police in schools or hospitals. The drug war causes a lot of un…
I think the thing you're missing here is that the distortion (see the use of the word abolish here, the proposal is defunding) is completely deliberate.
This divide didn't happen by accident, it's the product of decades of deliberate political choices.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Let's move funds from police departments to public health infrastructure, and additionally, use remaining funding on accountability mechanisms" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue at a protest.
"Reform public safety" works though
Has less punch, and we're not talking about restructuring fire departments.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Abolish the police What does this mean to you?
What does "abolish" mean, you mean? The 13th amendment to the U.S. constitution "abolished" slavery. It means get rid of completely, and make sure it never comes back.
what about the exception for prison labor which many consider to be 'modern slavery'?
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#47So far the suggested policy has been to:
- abolish the police [1]
- banning crowd control munitions on peaceful protesters [2] who peacefully throw bombs of peace [3] and start fires of peace [4]
- prosecute those who attempt to defend themselves from said peaceful protesters [5]
- selectively fire white cops, civil rights laws be damned [6]
I'm tired of this.
[1] https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2020/07/17/black-lives-matte...
[2] https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-police-deployed-crow...
[3] https://www.q13fox.com/news/seattle-police-declare-riot-afte...
[4] https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2020/07/groups-smash-glas...
[5] https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/mcclosk...
[6] https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattle-police-chief-fires-...
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#48> “Seattle’s unprecedented decision to abandon and close off an entire city neighborhood, leaving it unchecked by the police, unserved by fire and emergency health services, and inaccessible to the public” Is this what people advocating for abolish the police are advocating for? Removal of health services? Isn't it literally the opposite, to have more and more varied health (and social) services, that people are advo…
Why should an ambulance driver have to respond to a call in a dangerous neighborhood without a police escort? I wouldn’t. Fuck that, you don’t want police, good luck.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#49Was anyone surprised by this? Defund / Abolish the police sound like the stupidest ideas ever.
As an outsider looking in, it seems to me like reducing the scope of responsibility , and increasing accountability, of your police forces would be a boon to public safety.
We've tried to hold police accountable for murder. Charging them results in incidents like the entire police force rallying behind the one and just not doing their job anymore. And nearby police refusing to do their duty as well.
This happened in Atlanta. You can't even bring charges against a cop, let alone make it to a trial, without horrendous outcry and mass refusal to do their job.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/17/us/rayshard-brooks-atlanta-po...
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an outsider looking in, it seems to me like reducing the scope of responsibility , and increasing accountability, of your police forces would be a boon to public safety.
Obviously the details would be contentions but I think reducing the scope of policing in abstract is widely supported across America. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who can't think of an entire category of behavior the government is currently in, and should not be, in the business of micromanaging with violence. But when people say "abolish the police" they do not come across as meaning "reduce the scope of po…
>But when people say "abolish the police" they do not come across as meaning "reduce the scope of policing".
Some people, sure, but that's understandable given their extremely dire situation. Regardless, in my experience, most people do in fact flesh out reasonable ideas while using the phrase. Further, by far most "phrases" I've heard in person are of the "defund/reform" variety. But of course "abolishment" gets disproportionate attention, and there's always the trap of just listening to news sources and online forums where the phrase "abolish the police" is quoted with no chance given to the people for more context.