Was anyone surprised by this? Defund / Abolish the police sound like the stupidest ideas ever.
everything must be so obvious when you’re super smart and have all the answers
Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
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Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#12> “Seattle’s unprecedented decision to abandon and close off an entire city neighborhood, leaving it unchecked by the police, unserved by fire and emergency health services, and inaccessible to the public” Is this what people advocating for abolish the police are advocating for? Removal of health services? Isn't it literally the opposite, to have more and more varied health (and social) services, that people are advo…
> “Abolish the police” is a scale
Words have meaning though. No one on the political board is against reforms but “abolish”, “defund”, or “shut down” mean what it means.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#13"Aren't so sure" from reading the article seems like an understatement. Many of the people featured in this article are suing the city for not doing it's responsibility.
I get that police treatment is often inequitable, but I think we've had some experiments this summer showing that some of the radical changes being proposed have their own problems.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#14I thought well over half of the US population "aren't so sure", not just "survivors of the chaos in Seattle".
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#15> “Seattle’s unprecedented decision to abandon and close off an entire city neighborhood, leaving it unchecked by the police, unserved by fire and emergency health services, and inaccessible to the public” Is this what people advocating for abolish the police are advocating for? Removal of health services? Isn't it literally the opposite, to have more and more varied health (and social) services, that people are advo…
> “Abolish the police” is a scale Words have meaning though. No one on the political board is against reforms but “abolish”, “defund”, or “shut down” mean what it means.
Well, yes, duh? In what movements are there not scales attached to pithy lines? I even said:
> Maybe "abolish" was a poor choice of a word.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#16Was anyone surprised by this? Defund / Abolish the police sound like the stupidest ideas ever.
I know you may be unwilling to entertain the opposite point of view, but it doesn't necessarily sound like a "stupid idea" to friends/families/cultures who have lost members to murder by police (at varying points on the scale from negligence to depraved heart to purposeful to premeditated), especially in the case for mere "defunding", which is thoughtless to call a "stupid idea" out of hand, since the argument that some police have too much firepower is one that can be formed reasonably, and not just a "stupid idea" to be dismissed without engaging. Also, most victims don't even go as far as literal and unqualified abolishment, and say they want complete reform. But even the ones desperate enough to call for abolishment, which I find hard to blame them for, are usually talking about specific extremely corrupt and violent jurisdictions, and further, they admit that something must come after - abolish "the current" police in "some" places, before they kill again, and replace them. And of course, I'm sure there are some who have been driven to want only to "abolish police" without further qualification, and you are encouraged to engage them respectfully and explain that it's unrealistic despite their emotional suffering and outrage, and engage them in the context of the more fleshed-out options I've listed above.
Don't just call it a "stupid idea". That doesn't belong on HN.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#17Was anyone surprised by this? Defund / Abolish the police sound like the stupidest ideas ever.
As an outsider looking in, it seems to me like reducing the scope of responsibility , and increasing accountability, of your police forces would be a boon to public safety.
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#18> “Seattle’s unprecedented decision to abandon and close off an entire city neighborhood, leaving it unchecked by the police, unserved by fire and emergency health services, and inaccessible to the public” Is this what people advocating for abolish the police are advocating for? Removal of health services? Isn't it literally the opposite, to have more and more varied health (and social) services, that people are advo…
>>From what I've seen, that isn't what the majority who are calling for abolishment are aiming for.
The problem is a large number of people calling for for abolishing the police do not have an actual plan on what to replace them with, saying things like "Something will rise up to replace it"
There is also a over riding belief that criminality is 100% related to systemic racism and poverty which is not really the case, Some of it is sure and we should address that with reform but a large part of criminality is not and abolishing the police is not a solution to that crime
We need massive reform and demilitarization of the police, and abolish police unions, but abolish police is crazy town
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#19Abolishing the police combined with the protests (or riots) and the move against the NRA creates a very uncomfortable environment for probably half of the United States.
All in an election year no less.
Does no one remember 2000,2004 and 2016? Perhaps the DNC could write a book called “How to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory”
Re: Abolish the Police? Survivors of the Chaos in Seattle Aren’t So Sure
#20"Aren't so sure" from reading the article seems like an understatement. Many of the people featured in this article are suing the city for not doing it's responsibility. I get that police treatment is often inequitable, but I think we've had some experiments this summer showing that some of the radical changes being proposed have their own problems.
> the radical changes being proposed have their own problems
I'd like to point out that none of said changes have been implemented anywhere in the US in any meaningful way. Save some minor defunding, I know of no locale who has transferred any responsibility away from the police, which is one of the main roads to abolition. As another poster said, this is a very clear straw man. CHAZ was a result of protesting and an incredibly aggressive Seattle PD, not an ideal people are looking to recreate everywhere.