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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#661

Post by joyeuse6701 »

ottolin wrote: post #596
dirtyid wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is banned, you follow domestic censorship laws you get to play. Every domestic companies has to, it's onerous, and level playing fields. FB, Google still sell billions in ads to China, they were engineering compliant services to return. Legal reciprocity is China following US laws, which it does. Functional reciprocity is forcing Chinese companies to enter JV and tech transfer - while providing Chinese compan…

Oh come on, you want to talk about rules. When did CCP follow the rules that it agreed to follow when entering WTO? Laws in authoritarian China are the tool for oppression. It is not well written and can be interpreted as how CCP like.

Exactly

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#662

Post by u801e »

jariel wrote: post #651
yorwba wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

"It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not." So no - this is…

> Now enter the security issue, which is very real

The national security trope really only affects the government. The global pandemic has had a far greater effect on the economy and has caused far more deaths than any national security incident or terrorist attack.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#664

Post by MentallyRetired »

pgrote wrote: post #657
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

>Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China. This really could be the end of the thread. For years China has banned systems and applications from other parts of the world. The fact it has taken this long to respond with action is stupefying. China would like the benefits of a…

We're not a communist dictatorship.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#665

Post by dominotw »

sinoskeptic wrote: post #658
dominotw wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". It also works if we divide the world into "China tribe" and "rest of the world tribe" . Infact thats the way it always have been, now china is getting kicked out of "rest of the world tribe" . India and USA are just taking the lead, rest will follow. I am ok with that.

I am from India, and I created an account to agree with exactly this, and add a few more comments. To every country which is actually in China's proximity, what China has been doing has been nothing short of imperial - in the bad sense of the word. The "China tribe", if you look a little closely, consists of two types of people - those who are so far away that their notion of China is mostly in the abstract - in the…

> I mention this because the same folks are often seen loudly complaining about the treatment of Muslims in pretty much every other part of the world.

Its just capitalism.

Patagonia made a big fuss about facebook ads but their official policy is to no mix business with politics only when it comes to china.

Patagonia was widely celebrated( including here on HN) for their facebook ad stunt. Really pathetic hypocrites live here in USA unfortunately.

https://www.patagonia.com/static/on/demandware.static/-/Libr...

> Far more of our products are made by those Chinese suppliers than they are by the U.S factories because of their expertise and price

> We’ve made the choice not to disengage from countries on the basis of their policies.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#666

Post by sukilot »

yorwba wrote: post #538
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

Words have meanings.

It's not a "dictatorship", because Congress (elected every 2 years, approximately) sets the laws that the President acts under, and the President himself (so far!) is elected every 4 years.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#667

Post by jmknoll »

Udik wrote: post #332
bleepblorp wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much impossible for lower-income countries to develop economically without protecting their emerging businesses from being slaughtered by established foreign competition. The priority of the Chinese government is the benefit of its citizens (leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens, as this is a separate issue) and its domestic economy, not the benefit of…

> leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens Is that actually true? China seems to be even using affirmative action to benefit its minorities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China

China is literally putting ethnic minorities in concentration camps by the millions.

It has some affirmative action laws on the books but they are 100% lip service and don’t result in anything meaningful.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#668

Post by bob33212 »

pelliphant wrote: post #545
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Are you still trying to find logic in trumps actions? The popular opinion on reddit seems to be that this is just trump being told that tiktok users where responsible for his failed tulsa rally, and personally, that explanation seems just as likely as any of the other explanations given here...

Trump is smarter than that. He will also take credit for "securing America, because he stopped the Chinese computer virus that sleepy Joe and the socialist Dems wanted to let into America"

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#669

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

I am going to ignore value judgment over whether it is fair, or whether it even makes sense and am going to jump straight to enforcement framework and EO interpretation.

EO appears to single out two entities WeChat ( Tencent subsidiary ) and TikTok ( ByteDance subsidiary ). EO appears to indicate that the restrictions will be governed by sanctions framework.

Tencent owns a fair amount of gaming outfits so based on ownership, for example, Grinding Gears could be affected since Tencent owns 80% stake there. Gears seems to interpret the order in an optimistic way leaning heavily on phrase 'any transaction that is related to WeChat', but ignores 'with Tencent Holdings Ltd.' and how it is likely going to be interpreted by the banking. In short, Tencent interpretation right now is 'it applies only if it only blocks transactions related to WeChat.'

I personally have less generous read, but if a lawyer could actually weigh in, that would work:P

Original text:

Section 1. (a) The following actions shall be prohibited beginning 45 days after the date of this order, to the extent permitted under applicable law: any transaction that is related to WeChat by any person, or with respect to any property, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, with Tencent Holdings Ltd. (a.k.a. Téngxùn Kònggǔ Yǒuxiàn Gōngsī), Shenzhen, China, or any subsidiary of that entity, as identified by the Secretary of Commerce (Secretary) under section 1(c) of this order.[1]

[1]https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or...

Diclaimer:

I am not a lawyer yo. Don't be an idiot.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#670

Post by zb1plus »

factsaresacred wrote: post #613
yorwba wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

> But having the president order arbitrary punishment without proof of guilt (what happened to presumption of innocence?) looks like a dictatorship to me Extremely naive view. China is a totalitarian state that can compel its companies to hand over all private data if asked. In your rosy "presumption of innocence" scenario, by the time they're proven guilty it's too late. This is preemptive measure that is a prelude…

Funny, both the USA [1] and Australia [2] can compel its companies to hand over all private data if asked and regularly exploit the security systems of their own companies with little to no due process to obtain data on people. Nation-states interests are disjoint from those of its people. We need global unity, not petty tribalism if we are to make the world a better place for all. The internet can be a powerful tool for unity, but state actors and other narrow minded selfish actors are currently seeing the value of it and manipulating it to support their political objectives. We need to unite and quash this menace to free societies and global free economies. Recent measures by the current US regime stoop to China's level and usher an era of balkanization that will ultimately destroy the competitiveness of US companies and promote petty nationalism and racism.

[1] https://www.aclu.org/other/national-security-letters [2] https://www.theregister.com/2018/08/14/oz_encryption_backdoo...

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