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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#621

Post by dominotw »

yorwba wrote: post #538
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

> It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe".

It also works if we divide the world into "China tribe" and "rest of the world tribe" .

Infact thats the way it always have been, now china is getting kicked out of "rest of the world tribe" . India and USA are just taking the lead, rest will follow.

I am ok with that.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#622

Post by BenElgar »

woopwoop wrote: post #608
unishark wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It ceases to be reciprocal if you distinguish groups at an only slightly higher resolution: Chinese businesses like TikTok and WeChat and American businesses like Google and Facebook in addition to the Chinese and American governments. This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. You can see examples worldwide right now wi…

> This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. What? Which part of our immigration system is reciprocal?

The visa fees certainly are: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/Visa-Rec...

It's also a fundamental principle of the EU's visa policy: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#623

Post by stank345 »

woopwoop wrote: post #608
unishark wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It ceases to be reciprocal if you distinguish groups at an only slightly higher resolution: Chinese businesses like TikTok and WeChat and American businesses like Google and Facebook in addition to the Chinese and American governments. This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. You can see examples worldwide right now wi…

> This is pretty much exactly how reciprocity works in other areas like travel and immigration. We treat their nationals as they treat ours. What? Which part of our immigration system is reciprocal?

As an example from my personal experience, up until last year, Brazil required Americans to get a tourist visa. They also charged identical visa fees based on what Brazilians have to pay to visit the US as a tourist. On their website they made it plain that the whole motivation for the visa and fees was reciprocity. It stood out in my mind as funny because it seemed so petty.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#624

Post by thecureforzits »

hintymad wrote: post #381
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

Is free speech conditional on reciprocity?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#625

Post by xvector »

krn wrote: post #445
CameronNemo wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source you linked contains no concrete evidence that TikTok poses a greater risk to national security than similar US based social networks.

How can "similar US based social networks" pose a national security risk to the US ? They might pose a national security risk to China. And that's why all the US-based social networks are banned in China. Also, the US intelligence agencies could have just validated these public claims by themselves[1]: > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere n…

None of your sources provide any concrete evidence. Right now all you’ve linked to is xenophobic fearmongering unsupported by any data whatsoever.

Show me the Frida or Wireshark logs showing that TikTok collects more than, say Facebook. Link to actual evidence that China uses it to spy on Americans.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#626

Post by gpm »

fastball wrote: post #308
gpm wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was Vine available in China? It seems quite unlikely considering how little western social media is... so while I can't tell from a quick search I'm guessing that you really should remember that.

Ironically it seems like you and GC are on the same side (China didn't kill Vine), but you actually have unintentionally made an argument in favor of the opposite stance – maybe Vine would've done better if the CCP had allowed it to exist in China.

Huh? I'm arguing that China probably did kill Vine, or at least substantially contribute to its death.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#628

Post by SkyBelow »

yorwba wrote: post #538
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

It's only reciprocity if you divide the world into two tribes, the "China tribe" and the "US tribe". Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible. I used to think the Western world had abandoned that kind of collective punishment, but apparently not. It ceases to be re…

>Someone from the "China tribe" did something bad to the "US tribe", so now we're going to grab a random member of the "China tribe" and punish them for it, even if they're not the one responsible.

Isn't it more like someone from the leaders of the tribe did something so we are holding leadership of the tribe responsible, given the extent that private companies are really extensions of the government?

>But having the president order arbitrary punishment without proof of guilt

Plea deals means that most people never have their guilt proven, only that they are strong armed into confessing so that harsher punishment isn't given. This is already the norm in any country that practices plea deals.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#629

Post by xvector »

paxys wrote: post #126
alexmingoia wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. US companies don’t have to trade with China. But the US banning trade with China is nothing but an attack on Americans and my freedom to trade and communicate.

Try launching your app in China and see how much freedom you have. Regulating international trade (via agreements) is one of the foremost responsibilities of the federal government, and if this move forces them to open up their economy to fair competition it's a net benefit for everyone.

You can absolutely launch your app in China if you follow the law.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#630

Post by varjag »

xvector wrote: post #609
varjag wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ban is a legal barrier.

Ridiculous argument. You know what I meant.

It is not any more ridiculous than any arbitrary legislation you introduce to keep foreign competition shut down, just more honestly phrased.
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