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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#441

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Election. Team Trump believes it needs to take a firm stand on something or other.

There are much more obvious national security threats, but this is kindergarten tit for tat politics for ratings. So don't expect any action on those.

Or any understanding of second order consequences for the US. Or a coherent national IT security strategy, which is what the US and EU really need.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#442

Post by stale2002 »

tobias3 wrote: post #433
ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

China does it, so it is okay for us to do it is just a very weak defense of this behaviour for us looking at this from outside of China and the US. The US stood for free markets, democracy and human rights and (at least) pretended to make international decisions based on those values. Now the fig leaf is gone and it is clear that those are mostly used to make transactions to US benefit even if it comes at the cost to…

> China does it, so it is okay for us to do it is just a very weak defense of this behaviour for us looking at this from outside of China and the US.

This is how trade relationships work.

If china puts a tariff on us, for corn, or steel, or whatever, then the US is going to put the same exact corn/steel tariff on them.

Reciprocity is a foundational premise of trade relations.

> The US stood for free markets

We have tariffs against many countries for many different reasons... This is nothing new. That is just how trade relations work.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#443

Post by Lambdanaut »

hintymad wrote: post #381
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

"Just" reciprocity? "Just" an eye for an eye?

And when the other guy takes out our spleen, we should take out his too?

And his muscles?

His brain?

And heart?

Until we are both nothing but dust.

Yes, let's reciprocate. Let us take until we are shit in the wind.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#444

Post by kortilla »

learnstats2 wrote: post #399
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

Unequal? You’re suggesting that blocking just monetary transactions with two companies is somehow worse than the thousands of sites blocked in China?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#445

Post by krn »

CameronNemo wrote: post #377
krn wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way It can be a real threat to national security[1]: > Thursday's order alleges that TikTok "automatically captures vast swaths of information from its users," such as location data and browsing and search histories, which "threatens to allow the Chinese Communist Party access to Americans' personal and proprietary information -- potentially allowing Chi…

The source you linked contains no concrete evidence that TikTok poses a greater risk to national security than similar US based social networks.

How can "similar US based social networks" pose a national security risk to the US?

They might pose a national security risk to China. And that's why all the US-based social networks are banned in China.

Also, the US intelligence agencies could have just validated these public claims by themselves[1]:

> For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere near the same amount of data that TikTok does, and they sure as hell aren't outright trying to hide exactly whats being sent like TikTok is. It's like comparing a cup of water to the ocean - they just don't compare.

And the US and India are not the only countries with deep concerns here. The investigations into TikTok's data collection practices have also been launched by the governments of Australia, Japan, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, and the EU[2].

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fxgi06/not_new_news...

[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/08/03/its-not-just...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#446

Post by tomp »

danboarder wrote: post #40

This is sad, we in the US are losing the little high ground we had and no longer lead by example to bring the world closer together by encouraging free markets and free people. I'm against this protectionist nationalism, it only leads to future conflict.

The only thing that matters is long-term consequences. This could be war, but literally nobody wants that, least of all China. It also could be beating China down on its knees, and forcing it to free its people and its markets. That would be a remarkable outcome (not sure Trump can get there, though - I expected something in this direction in his dealings with North Korea, but he dropped the ball... I don't know, maybe he just got bored?)

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#447

Post by sdigital »

hintymad wrote: post #381
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

What's the point in reciprocity here?

"And if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you".

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#448

Post by himinlomax »

wonnage wrote: post #408
ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

Yeah, show them the power of the free world by checks notes banning all their apps, which is only constitutionally possible because the app stores are controlled by two American companies, and the ban technically works on the companies rather than banning the apps directly, proving the value of a sophisticated Western legal system!!!

You can't show them anything anyway, it's all censored there.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#449

Post by kortilla »

wonnage wrote: post #408
ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

Yeah, show them the power of the free world by checks notes banning all their apps, which is only constitutionally possible because the app stores are controlled by two American companies, and the ban technically works on the companies rather than banning the apps directly, proving the value of a sophisticated Western legal system!!!

What do two companies have to do with constitutionality?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#450

Post by unishark »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #443
hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

"Just" reciprocity? "Just" an eye for an eye? And when the other guy takes out our spleen, we should take out his too? And his muscles? His brain? And heart? Until we are both nothing but dust. Yes, let's reciprocate. Let us take until we are shit in the wind.

Or until both sides agree to bilaterally remove bans? Because unlike eyes, messaging can grow back.
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