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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#241

Post by pqhwan »

karterk wrote: post #178
pqhwan wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, it worries me to see popular narratives sinking back into nationalistic perspectives. This entrenches us in the “ they did A, so we will respond with B” logic, and from there, it only takes a few “reasonable” exchanges between nations “just looking out for themselves” for us all to end up in a situation nobody wanted.

I agree with you on the overall perspective. But I do think exceptions can and do exist. This not just a case of “they did A, so we will respond with B”. It's a case of “they did A, B, C, etc. so we are responding with X after 10+ years“. To be fair, successive US administrations across party lines gave CCP a long enough rope.

> “they did A, B, C, etc. so we are responding with X after 10+ years“

It’s the same, reactionary logic, that fails to give first concern for the desired end state. Delaying reactionary measures is what many call patience.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#242

Post by demadog »

jianshen wrote: post #201

What is his motivation for this right now? Is it just the distraction of the week or was there a specific incident recently that triggered this?

There’s likely a lot that is not and will never be covered in the news that the NSA and CIA know. I’m sure they look at our commentary on here, with 1% of the geopolitical information, and chuckle.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#244

Post by supernova87a »

Regardless of how I feel about this particular company or transaction, to me this is a bad overreach of presidential power. I guess it's merely a reflection of the incompetence/inaction of Congress to study the matter and do something about it, as is their responsibility.

Why do I say so?

1. The justification for this is that it's a "national emergency with respect to the information and communications technology and services supply chain". Supply chain? Are you kidding me? The permissions given to the executive to declare emergencies for critical goods and services such as related to war time -- these extend to a voluntary communications app? Strains belief, and however you feel, this is not a good precedent to allow.

2. CCP is censoring / monitoring / scraping users' data, so this is a national emergency.... but not for 45 days and then also ok if we can buy the company on our terms.

This is yet another thing I guess time to throw up your hands and say, this is how we live now. One throw-it-against-the-wall proclamation after another.

Even if you're somewhat ok with it, are you really ok with this principle being applied, when someday it may not go how you want, for something you care about?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#245

Post by alexryan »

zerowangtwo wrote: post #219
dicomdan wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One factor is that China has had a Firewall blocking all foreign digital competitors and information sources for a long time.

That don't abide by Chinese law. There's a reason Bing and Skype are still allowed in China. The US government has no proof of TikTok or WeChat violating any US laws that other American companies haven't.

All companies in China are required to do whatever the CCP tells them to do. If you have more than 100 employees, you must have a member of the CCP to provide oversight. Zhang Zhiming, the CEO of Byte Dance publicly grovels to the CCP. Here is his public statement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZa0FGThXak&t=5m4s

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#246

Post by yegle »

mdorazio wrote: post #200
sidibe wrote: post #156

"Threat" aside, it does seem fair for the West to reciprocate bans on Google/Facebook etc, but not sure the best way to communicate with family in China now if the western messaging apps are banned there and vice versa

Email? I know that seems dismissive, but people got along just fine before Facebook, texting, WeChat, etc. I suspect in reality there will be an endless whack-a-mole game with messaging services where people use a different one fairly frequently.

The great firewall of China does block email. If your email address is blocked 1. When you send an email to a recipient in China who is using an email service provider whose MTA does not support SSL/TLS/STARTTLS: the delivery attempt by your email service provider will result in a TCP reset. 2. Similarly, if someone in China want to send an email to your blocked email address but their MTA doesn't support SSL/TLS/STARTTLS: their attempt to send the email will result in a TCP reset.

I know this because my Gmail account is blocked in this way.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#247

Post by xvector »

demadog wrote: post #242
jianshen wrote: post #201

What is his motivation for this right now? Is it just the distraction of the week or was there a specific incident recently that triggered this?

There’s likely a lot that is not and will never be covered in the news that the NSA and CIA know. I’m sure they look at our commentary on here, with 1% of the geopolitical information, and chuckle.

They can chuckle because this is a dream come true for them.

These acquisitions will massively enhance the surveillance capabilities of the NSA and CIA.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#248

Post by xvector »

0xy wrote: post #228
yannikyeo wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the behaviour of a dictatorship country. And now America is being like one. This is probably what China wants for America.

America primarily sells technology. China primarily sells goods. China is totally free to sell goods into America. China has blockaded America's technology, unless the companies agree to essentially hand over IP so China can steal it (Huawei operated a cash bonus scheme for stolen IP, according to the DoJ). Does this sound like "free trade"?

Has TikTok stolen any IP?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#249

Post by bmitc »

perennate wrote: post #233
bmitc wrote: post #145

Does anyone know what the definition of a transaction is? The executive action is not clear at all and provides no definition of transaction. Big surprise. Furthermore, what is the government going to do if I refuse to stop using WeChat? Is the U.S. going to embark on blocking the app at the network level? If not, how will they enforce this? What if a person as defined in the order travels to China? Are they banned f…

I think most likely Apple and Google will have to remove TikTok and WeChat from the app store in U.S. If you install manually on Android you would probably be able to continue to use it. The executive order only bans transactions (since that is the limit of the power granted to president by IEEPA), so the executive has no authority to "block the app at the network level" -- the IEEPA explicitly restricts the prohibit…

Thanks for the detail.

If transaction refers to a payment transaction, then I don't understand how this isn't an abuse of power if it leads to removal from app stores, thus removing all functionality. If the president has the power to ban financial transactions, fine, but by effect, if the app is then removed from the app stores, then that effectively bans it for any other use as well, such as text, video chat, and audio calls, which is against the restrictions you quoted.

If I travel to China while this ban is in place, am I allowed to use the app while in China (assuming it's not removed from the app stores)?

This is all such a slippery slope. I am just so scared about my family's future. Trump is keeping my family outside of the country, needlessly, and now he is preventing effective communication.

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