A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game • Hacker News Board

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#41

Post by aridiculous » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

moeffju wrote: post #34

Why does nobody mention that this competition is for "chat styles"? That the content of the chat window is the only part of the new oh-so-awful Skype 5 for Mac that you can change with custom "styles", and that no matter how good the UI/UX designer, they can not fix any of the perceived problems with the Skype 5 UI by creating a "chat style"?

True. If they're looking for a great UI designer/design, and not just a photoshop job, they have to give the UI person access to the product flow decision-making.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#42

Post by ThomPete » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #39

ThomPete wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I happen to know the guys who designed Skype for Mac. And by no metrics did they simply weld it on at the end. There are many many many factors involved in why Skype looks like it do and works like it does, but treating the design as something to be welded on at the end ain't one of them nor is not having a process.

I'm delighted to hear that. It is restores my faith in our profession to know that there is a process in place and that the final result reflects the forces and contraints in place. +1!

They guys that did Skype was 8020studio.com probably on of the best design agencies in the world if you ask me.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#43

Post by raganwald » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 5:26 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #42

raganwald wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm delighted to hear that. It is restores my faith in our profession to know that there is a process in place and that the final result reflects the forces and contraints in place. +1!

They guys that did Skype was 8020studio.com probably on of the best design agencies in the world if you ask me.

And I hope this actually reinforces the point I made. If it looks to me like this did not take place, it is because I obviously don't understand the forces and constraints upon the solution. Perhaps I don't fully understand the problem they are trying to solve.

If they did an excellent job, then they knew something that is not obvious from looking at the design competition, which is why I suggest that being involved in the full process is so important.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#44

Post by recoiledsnake » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 5:58 PM UTC

samdelagarza wrote: post #16

raganwald wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering, accounting, and other +regulated+ fields use social engineering to solve the problem of how to be paid handsomely. What they have done is convince society that there should only be a limited number of engineers and accountants, those that are highly trained and have passed rigorous examinations. The imbalance of supply and demand takes care of the rest. In those two fields, you can see that when supply i…

I'm not sure how it is for other engineering professions, but for software engineers we have a similar competition but instead of people willing to work for free it's people willing to work for peanuts out of India.

But what is peanuts to you is not peanuts to them. A different thing altogether from the point of this thread.

A better comparison for software engineers would be with interns working for free just to gain experience, freeware or FOSS.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#45

Post by justinph » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 5:59 PM UTC

tseabrooks wrote: post #7

larrik wrote: post #5

Am I the only one who thinks there's way too much similarity between the the RIAA's "Save the artists" screeching, and the "design industry's" "Save the artists" screeching? Your existing business model is disappearing, and your cartel isn't going to stop it. Sucks for you. (BTW, my wife is a graphic designer, so make of that what you will)

This was kind of my thinking regarding sites like eLance and 99designs. When I first saw them I thought they were a great way to connect with designers that have more modest salary expectations. Though there are a handful of problems with these services, you just have to decide if the problems are worth the savings. But I've been really disappointed by the huge backlash against these types of sites from the designers…

As a designer, when an org comes to me and says "we have $[laughably small amount] to spend on this website", I point them to WooThemes and tell them to pick one out. I'm happy to sit down with them for a few hours and do some basic work, but put the burden on them. It works great for me, because I get to do a little design education, still get paid, and focus my time on more lucrative projects. It also can pay dividends when clients come back to me later for more work or other design changes.

To put it in a more uncouth way, 99Designs and WooThemes take the pain-in-the-ass clients and get them out of the way. I don't see it as a bad thing. I just wish I had come up with the idea first.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#46

Post by kaishin » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

Terretta wrote: post #31

From the article: > There is no way in hell any company would launch an engineering or accounting competition. Ahem: http://www.netflixprize.com/

Everyone seems to be pointing in the article to the Netflix prize, but hey, don't take my phrase word for word. That's actually an exception that confirms the rule... What I meant is that spec work in design is being tolerated by both companies and designers more than any other field...

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#47

Post by pixelbath » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 6:15 PM UTC

As a designer, these pieces come off to me as whiny. I have a difficult time picturing why a designer would sit there angry at a company for crowdsourcing a design.

Some 14-year-old designer is not cheapening the work we do by submitting logos for free to a bunch of companies hoping to get exposure. Out-of-work designers are not taking all the other freelance jobs because they decided to do some blog layouts at $50 a pop.

Designers: get over yourselves.

If you, as a designer, truly feel the work you are doing is better than a design competition, then don't submit your work to a design competition. If you're really that good, freelancers offering services for cheap, near-free, or even free shouldn't bother you at all.

Also, "keep in mind that you are betraying the design community?" Design community? What design community? The design industry looks like this:

1. Top-tier ad agencies/teams like Psyop, Leo Burnett 2. Smaller ad agencies 3. Freelance designers 3a. Unemployed designers

So who is our hypothetical 14-year-old logo-designing student hurting? Ad agencies. If your work is really worth that much more or is that much better, companies will pay handsomely for it. If they won't, it's you that's the problem, not the designers submitting free or near-free spec-work.

Apologies for the rantiness of this comment.

Edited for typos.

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#48

Post by mcritz » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 6:18 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #38

raganwald wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not surprise me in the least that the people who produced the Skype 5 "design" also treat design as something to be welded on at the end of the assembly line. Design isn’t just a product, it’s also a process. Thank you for articulating in nine words what took me eight paragraphs to fumble around.

I happen to know the guys who designed Skype for Mac. And by no metrics did they simply weld it on at the end. There are many many many factors involved in why Skype looks like it do and works like it does, but treating the design as something to be welded on at the end ain't one of them nor is not having a process.

If Skype felt strongly in the design process they wouldn’t be asking for design consultation after the fact, right?

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#49

Post by joe_the_user » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 6:26 PM UTC

raganwald wrote: post #35

joe_the_user wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering, accounting, and other +regulated+ fields use social engineering to solve the problem of how to be paid handsomely. What they have done is convince society that there should only be a limited number of engineers and accountants, those that are highly trained and have passed rigorous examinations. Yes, they've made an argument to society. And that argument is not entirely empty or "social engineering". Wit…

Politicians manipulate people's behaviour by appealing to their perceived best interest. So do companies marketing products. So do the Society of Engineers and the College of Physicians. Come to think of it, so do unions. Is there any "reasonableness" to their position? You can decide for yourself. If you don't like the expression "social engineering," I'm perfectly happy with "Engineers manipulate public behaviour t…

"Social engineering" and "manipulation" are terms for influence with a negative connotation. So I don't think you are entirely avoiding the question whether this influencing is valid. Moreover, you are making the presupposition that the end-goal is higher pay. That might be one goal but its quite possible engineers actually believe that regulation serves the public good. We could discuss this too but "meta-conversation" is mostly about avoiding the sneaking-in of positions without support.

If a person were to say "engineers do an excellent job of educating the public concerning the need for their services to be regulated", well then the statement would skewed the other way - "Educate" is term with positive connotations.

Perhaps "engineer have pushed for the regulation of their field" would be close to neutral...

Re: A Call to All UI Designers: Do Not Play Skype’s Game

#50

Post by kaishin » Mon, Apr 04, 2011, 6:27 PM UTC

joblessjunkie wrote: post #20

raganwald wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering, accounting, and other +regulated+ fields use social engineering to solve the problem of how to be paid handsomely. What they have done is convince society that there should only be a limited number of engineers and accountants, those that are highly trained and have passed rigorous examinations. The imbalance of supply and demand takes care of the rest. In those two fields, you can see that when supply i…

I'm not sure if you are just trying to make a supplemental point, but this isn't really where I was going. Either my cell phone drops its signal, or it doesn't. Either my books balance and my checks clear, or they don't. In engineering and accounting, there are absolute and obvious measures of success. When it comes to UI design, who decides when the design is successful? My boss? He approved the Pontiac Aztek. Lord…

Allow me to chime in, UI design is as methodical as engineering and accounting. There are quantitative and qualitative methods to build and evaluate interfaces. Maybe you are referring to aesthetics, but that's only a fraction of what an interface is...