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Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

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111–120 of 278 posts

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#111
I’ve owned a physical business before. What the article fails to mention is that small to medium sized businesses generally sign leases with joint and several (personal) liability attached.

Landlords can and do go after the person after the bankrupt LLC is raided.

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#112
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

technically this will allow "working people" to continue having their jobs, otherwise the retailers will have to fire anyone and go out of business.

Right. Because trickle-down economics have always proven so great for the working class.

That worked well for competing workers with lower costs of living, just not for US-based workers.

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone still wants to live in cities. Firms want to settle in cities. If shops close, it wont change much.

You could see commercial real-estate be converted to residential.

In practice unfortunately most attempts seem to get aborted as zoning requirements differ too much to be economical. For one the plumbing tends to come with per resident requirements for the units they wish to sell for health code reasons of wanting a shower, toliet, and bath.

Going more "dorm" style could work for low end if there wasn't a pandemic and even then it would carry plenty of risks that would scare people away from such an arrangement let alone the consumer desires.

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#114

Man, with (currently) four comments mentioning that this is "what bankruptcy is for", I think the point of the article might have been missed. This isn't some sneaky "one weird trick", and that's not the reason Bloomberg is reporting on it. In fact, the tone of the article to me is, "yup, companies do it all the time, but..." And the "but" is: But the moves threaten to upend huge swaths of the real estate market and…

Maybe someone that understands this better than I do can comment, but isn't this something that can lead to CLO collapse and systemic financial system failure (similar to 2008, but maybe not as severe?).

Described in this: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/coronav...

The Dodd-Frank act capital requirements seems like they'll protect banks a bit, but to an outside layman like me it does seem like the CLO risk is similar in structure to CDOs.

What am I missing?

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#115
post #55
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I've seen it stated that property developers and property-management companies are often heavily leveraged, such that they can't lower rents; in about the same way that a VC firm with a ten-year investment time horizon on their fund can't invest in your startup if all your valuation-growth will come only after 11 years. In both cases, the lenders and shareholders of the firm, have contractually obligated the…

>So the firm itself is destined to either return the predicted profit, or die, with no middle road. Nah, the third option is bailouts, and they are not wrong for having high confidence in getting bailouts.

It's interesting, where I live in Ontario, the mall pre-recession was doing extremely well. They changed focus primarily to services, clothing, and food. Massive food court, 80% of the mall are clothing/fashion, and then there are services, like dr's office, optometrist, gym etc. They were killing it.

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#116
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But the moves threaten to upend huge swaths of the real estate market and the half-trillion dollar market for commercial mortgage-backed securities. I wouldn't worry about that. I fully expect the federal reserve to "fix" this by buying the toxic assets with printed money.

If capitalism is to be the law of the land, why not let the rich lose everything? I guess they can easily live on the streets.

"socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor"

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#117

I wonder how Apple will respond if malls start collapsing. (I’ve heard rumor that) they pay just pennies on the dollar for their store leases because they draw so much foot traffic to the malls. I can’t imagine them keeping stores open in the middle of a nearly empty mall, but I’ve only ever seen pictures of an Apple store that wasn’t in a mall or strip mall.

The only Apple product I have are some gifted Airpod Pros. I can confirm they stopped working repeatedly and got me into a mall 3 times.

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#118
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ghost towns ...if rents don't fall. And maybe they should.

I think I've seen it stated that property developers and property-management companies are often heavily leveraged, such that they can't lower rents; in about the same way that a VC firm with a ten-year investment time horizon on their fund can't invest in your startup if all your valuation-growth will come only after 11 years. In both cases, the lenders and shareholders of the firm, have contractually obligated the…

No not all developers/commercial property owners are that leveraged or locked into those kind of cash distribution obligations. The smart ones will survive fine. The irresponsible will just file bankruptcy, and a more responsible owner gets to buy their properties and run them better.

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#119

Man, with (currently) four comments mentioning that this is "what bankruptcy is for", I think the point of the article might have been missed. This isn't some sneaky "one weird trick", and that's not the reason Bloomberg is reporting on it. In fact, the tone of the article to me is, "yup, companies do it all the time, but..." And the "but" is: But the moves threaten to upend huge swaths of the real estate market and…

On the other hand: what would they go do about it then? It the business fails it fails. It's not like you can pretend it is not failing and have them pay rent with their non-existent money.

Some large malls have been successfully converted to mostly residential "villages", [0], [1].

[0]: https://www.boredpanda.com/americas-oldest-shopping-mall-mic...

[1]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-30/a-case-fo...

Re: Busted retailers use bankruptcy to break leases by the thousands

#120
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, Franklin/Philadelphia Mills, Neshaminy, Moorestown, Plymouth Meeting, Cherry Hill & Deptford malls are all still open & have some overlap with shoppers in KOP's area. There's nothing wrong with not knowing a lot of malls, but come on, you have to qualify your statement a little bit, because your comment doesn't make sense to me as someone who can drive to KOP and at least a half dozen of the other malls I've be…

I should have qualified that KOP was the largest mall I knew of which is why I called it out. I did forget about Springfield mall which is still alive I assume. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promenade_at_Granite_Run is turning into a classic shopping center which was my closest mall growing up. In Pittsburgh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_III_Mall is getting turn down, Ross Park Mall is declining and Robinson…

"Still open" was your criteria, not mine (as in when you said the other malls were "no more").
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