Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#251

Post by hinkley » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

gre wrote: post #87

thatguy0900 wrote: post #16

I actually was sitting outside a few nights ago and realized that there was no more fireflies, and I couldn't remember the last time I had seen one. I used to go out all the time during summer as a kid to catch them, they would light up whole fields. That was just like 15 years ago. Pretty sobering realization

For me it's red wasps. Growing up in Texas there used to be so many, you could see them flying low searching for spiders in the grass. Last Sunday, in the heart of summer, I couldn't find a single red wasp where there used to be hundreds.

I have a fallow field, and in perhaps two hours of dedicated observation I've got about 10 species of insect I need to identify, and for a couple of them I'm not even sure what kind of bug they are (I'm probably going to have to scan a field guide).

The lot is between the river and our local garden district. I suspect I'm part of a migration route between them (I figured I was too far from the river for dragonflies, but I see at least 2 a day) It's changing my plans for the space a bit.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#252

Post by groby_b » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

dependenttypes wrote: post #234

adrianN wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans for example have an expectation of privacy at the workplace. It's not allowed to monitor a German employee's web browsing on a work computer. In the US the employer can monitor them all they want.

That does not seem very enforceable. Surely their internal DNS server and routers keep logs for example.

The use and access of those logs is strictly regulated, and yes, it is enforced.

Given that Germany has a much healthier employee representation than the US, it's much more difficult for management to slide in surveillance under the radar. (It's also rather painful if they get caught)

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#253

Post by hinkley » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

epanchin wrote: post #169

thatguy0900 wrote: post #16

I actually was sitting outside a few nights ago and realized that there was no more fireflies, and I couldn't remember the last time I had seen one. I used to go out all the time during summer as a kid to catch them, they would light up whole fields. That was just like 15 years ago. Pretty sobering realization

Driving through Europe one finds the front of the car covered in squashed insects. Drive through the UK and there are none. Depressing.

I didn't take the insect apocalypse seriously until I realized how much less time I'm spending washing bugs off my car. It was sort of my Silent Spring moment.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#254

Post by ssully » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

I don't use any chemicals in my yard mainly because I don't want to expose my dogs to that stuff. The result is a yard similar to your boss's. When the clover flowers we get plenty of bees, and there are other tiny flying insects, which attracts birds. Never really gave much mind to birds, but it's really nice going out and seeing cardinals on a daily basis. We've even had multiple robin nests around the house, which is fun to see their hatching cycle.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#255

Post by GordonS » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:35 PM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #221

GordonS wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never going the obsession with pristine lawns without clover, daisies, moss and such. I actually think it looks quite nice with some variation. My wife is militant about this, insisting that our lawn is sprayed with horrible chemicals at least once a year to kill off the clover, daisies and moss. Seems such a pointless thing to do, and very obviously not good for wildlife.

Why would someone insist on it? Seems like an odd thing to be focused on.

Appearances? Just because everyone else does it? Some people are just stuck in certain ways?

I've never got a straight answer on this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#256

Post by mikepurvis » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #233

mikepurvis wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but it's hardly a unique take: "Critics of HOAs have attacked them as a “tool for exclusion” that can encourage racial segregation. There’s no available data on the race of the owners of each particular house, so Clarke and Freedman couldn’t test this accusation directly. But they did compare the racial demographics of neighborhoods with or without HOAs, and found that neighborhoods with HOAs tended to be rich…

> that can encourage racial segregation. Unnamed critics state things "can" do things, while the following sentence shows there is no evidence. Then there is a follow up statement that the racial demographics show that HOAs tend to be richer (A major point of HOAs is to improve and maintain neighborhood values), and less diverse. The second part on its face might seem upsetting but, you'll find largely suburban commu…

Bloomberg is at least conventional media, though, and even right-leaning media, at that. It's a bit different from a comedian making bombastic, click-baity videos for the internet.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#257

Post by hinkley » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #3

I always just assumed that there are few insects now because there are so many more insecticides in use, this is the first time I've heard of lights. There's not much explaination in this article, but here's one with some more: Nighttime Light Pollution May Be Cause of Insect Population Decline https://www.photonics.com/Articles/Nighttime_Light_Pollution... "An analysis of the effects of artificial light at night on…

It's not just kind but application.

It's heartbreaking and happens at least once a year, that someone near conventional agriculture/horticulture is posting a desperate for advice in every forum they know about because some asshole upwind let a cloud of 'cide drift over their horticultural masterclass of a lot, and everything is shriveling.

Recompense can be hard to get. Maybe we need an ACLU meets EFF for biodiversity.

Let's ignore for a moment any agenda to ban monocultures, and look at not just the kind but the density. Pollinator species would be doing better if the monocultures weren't so seemless. We need a mosaic of habitat and to reduce the distances between the ones we have. But it's an uphill battle to maintain them in the face of drift and runoff (really I think we shouldn't be cultivating hilltops, that would be a start, and simply dodges the runoff problem)

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#258

Post by mgkimsal » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

bobbob1921 wrote: post #192

teruakohatu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American I have never understood why a people that values personal liberties are sometimes happy to be dictated to by housing authorities. I get it with apartment buildings with shared walls and communal property, but I just don't get why you would with suburban homes.

most likely the reason some Americans are fine with a HOA is because they do give up some liberties/freedoms for the other benefits that come with a HOA. Such as amenities, security, upkeep of surroundings, and other benefits from the pooling of resources (ie hoa fees). You also have essentially an arbitrator to deal with disputes between neighbors (mainly over appearances). (and generally when homes are constructed…

I'm on the fence, so to speak. have lived in subs with and without HOA, and mostly haven't noticed much of a difference. we did get a curt letter once about a trashcan "visible from the street" but they didn't followup when I asked for more info. Depending on what street you're on, it might be visible against the back of the house, but it wasn't visible from the front street, which is all I'd assume we'd care about.

One of the values I've found is that it does provide a way to collectively prevent certain eyesores. I don't really want to have someone with 5 cars in the street on in their driveway for extended periods of time. Having a BBQ party? Sure - have 15 cars there for a few hours. Want to collect cars and work on them and leave cars 'in repair' out the street for weeks at a time? I'd rather you didn't, and would rather there be some agreed upon process to resolve those disputes.

I do understand some HOAs have people that get power hungry - grass being a 1/4" too tall, etc. That's generally bullshit, and I think there's probably other things going on in those cases where the HOA issue is the public face of some other private neighbor disputes going on.

Oh, we did have a letter once or twice about "your lawn is not kept properly". We have a lawn service and they got delayed, then it rained heavy for 3 days, and they were backed up again, and... we had really long grass. It was cut the moment someone could cut it at that point. Nature happens. If the worst that came out of that was a $50 fine or something... meh.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#259

Post by _Microft » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

shekharshan wrote: post #120

"Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus" -- Agent Smith (The Matrix)

Sure, if there is one thing history has taught us it's that humans will not be contained. Humans break free, expand to new territories and crash through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, uh… well, there it is.

Humans will find a way.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#260

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

cs02rm0 wrote: post #249

GordonS wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never going the obsession with pristine lawns without clover, daisies, moss and such. I actually think it looks quite nice with some variation. My wife is militant about this, insisting that our lawn is sprayed with horrible chemicals at least once a year to kill off the clover, daisies and moss. Seems such a pointless thing to do, and very obviously not good for wildlife.

My wife seems to think all boxes with pictures of lawns on are the same. About three years in a row now she's tried to get lawn seed and poured a load of cheap weed and feed on instead. Completely going overboard on the quantities for good measure. At this point I'm amazed we have anything left to grow.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but you can't put down seed and weed & feed in the same season - you'll kill your seedlings. It actually says this on the bags of weed & feed.