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Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

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Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#171

Post by graeme »

shekharshan wrote: post #130
luckylion wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Matthew_Island#Mammals

Exactly, we are getting overconfident in our ability to control the planet and its resources. I believe we are privileged to share this planet with other beings. Instead we treat animals like some kind of inanimate resource.

You missed their point. The link shows that reindeer also multiplied far past their carrying point. Agent smith is wrong, plenty of mammals will overshoot given the opportunity.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#172

Post by zackmorris »

duxup wrote: post #112
zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

>But killing all clover, morning glories, and other broadleaf flowers in lawns has led to the near-extinction of bees in residential areas. Herbicides and pesticides in agriculture wiped out the rest. Is that the case for sure? I thought the state of the bee population wasn't quite that well understood... I have no doubt that various herbicides hurt, but I'm not sure that just that science means their current populat…

There are numerous studies, but since bee populations declined so drastically in the last 20 years, it's looking like the increase in glyphosate for GMO crops is one of the main culprits, or at least strongly correlated with the deaths:

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/25/651618685/study-roundup-weed-...

Admittedly, my sample size is only 1 as far as clover. I'd recommend anyone reading this to go to a clover honey farm near where you live, to see for yourself.

Part of the problem is that so many of us live in cities now that we have no personal experience about the issue, which leaves us more vulnerable to misinformation/propaganda from big agribusiness corporations, their lobbyists and the politicians beholden to them.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#173

Post by giancarlostoro »

GordonS wrote: post #135
zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

I never going the obsession with pristine lawns without clover, daisies, moss and such. I actually think it looks quite nice with some variation. My wife is militant about this, insisting that our lawn is sprayed with horrible chemicals at least once a year to kill off the clover, daisies and moss. Seems such a pointless thing to do, and very obviously not good for wildlife.

In my case its the HOA that cares.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#174

Post by lm28469 »

kaybe wrote: post #117
k__ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I had a big orange street lamp hanging right in front of my bedroom for years.

In Germany you can generally call the city office and complain and they will put some metal there to block the light from falling into your house. It might be an option in other locations as well.

Don't houses in Germany, and western Europe, have blinds ? I only had this night light issue when living in the US

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#175

Post by epanchin »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #47
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahem... I seem to recall that the masts of most streetlights are rather thin. Which meant that one could kick them a few times in ways that make the mast swing. Which could be rather large and abrupt swings at the top, which led to "Wackelkontakt"/ loss of contact, and thus darkness. It was even reversible! Your own personal kick switch for public street lights!

I've used high lumen, hand-held lights to kill streetlights. I haven't found a spectrum of laser that works, yet.

https://petapixel.com/2015/02/19/a-laser-can-turn-off-street...

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#176

Post by hn_check »

stinos wrote: post #100
hn_check wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of fireflies in my yard. As prevalent as ever [1]. This is just an anecdote, but I give that anecdote as another person who lives in a somewhat rural location. Speaking of the lady bug explosion, this year they are incredibly rare [2]. Not sure why, but they went from being a massive nuisance to being a very rare sight (of any variety). Humans are absolutely having a calamitous effect on insect life in a varie…

it does seem like insect populations massively fluctuate for entirely natural reasons Spot on, this is usually the real explanation for the typical 'I saw none'/'oh but I saw a bunch'/'I saw more than ever' rethoric applied to one single year or even multiple years of observations. Thinking of it, goes for basically all slowish trends related to nature. Unless you're approaching it scientifically, i.e. actual systema…

I assume fireflies are declining from the loss of habitat, along with so many other insect species. The speculation about light being a cause seems logical, but is unproven. Indeed, even the population variations of fireflies is unproven -- the wiki citation in the other link uses as its authority a cite that merely notes that they recall more when they were kids. It is an extremely poor quality citation (but it will play well on HN).

"Doom!" is a very seductive narrative that we fall to regarding virtually every change in our environment. Sometimes reasonably, as with AGW, but other times just taking natural variations and screaming end times...then just going quiet when they recover again as we move to the next cause.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#178

Post by throwaway9870 »

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

Old lawns (1950s) had clover by design. Even the lawn seed had clover seed already in it. Clover produces nitrogen which grass consumes, so it is a nice synergy. Clover eventually fell out of style because kids stepping on bees isn't desirable, and fertilizer and herbicides made an all grass lawn feasible.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#179

Post by odysseus »

faitswulff wrote: post #162
GordonS wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never going the obsession with pristine lawns without clover, daisies, moss and such. I actually think it looks quite nice with some variation. My wife is militant about this, insisting that our lawn is sprayed with horrible chemicals at least once a year to kill off the clover, daisies and moss. Seems such a pointless thing to do, and very obviously not good for wildlife.

Clover also doesn’t get as tall as grass, which obviates the need for mowing the lawn. And the rabbits quite like it.

Bumblebees like the clover too.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#180

Post by jagrsw »

gamblor956 wrote: post #125
thiago_fm wrote: post #10

I wonder how many centuries it might take for the US to start to care about insects or the environment like some European countries do with the recent regress in policies overall that isn't about ONLY increasing overall GDP in the US. And I say this even not considering Trump, which is a big menace. But democrat candidates in the US also don't care about the environment, not showing much promise. So do the Americans…

The states of California and Alaska each individually have more wild forest lands than the entire European continent. The US created the concept of state-protected wilderness reserves and national parks. The US was the driving force behind the Kyoto Protocol, and the originating nation of solar power, wind power, and nuclear power. California leads the world in automobile fuel economy targets, and the US as a whole h…

> The states of California and Alaska each individually have more wild forest lands than the entire European continent.

But that's not b/c of actions of local residents.

> The US created the concept of state-protected wilderness reserves and national parks.

That's quite incorrect, e.g. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82owie%C5%BCa_Forest

  The forest was declared a hunting reserve in 1541 to protect bison. In 1557, the forest charter was issued, under which a special board was established to examine forest usage. In 1639, King Vladislaus IV issued the "Białowieża royal forest decree" (Ordynacja Puszczy J.K. Mości leśnictwa Białowieskiego). The document freed all peasants living in the forest in exchange for their service as osocznicy, or royal foresters. They were also freed of taxes in exchange for taking care of the forest. The forest was divided onto 12 triangular areas (straże) with a centre in Białowieża.
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