Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#141

Post by joezydeco » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #86

thatguy0900 wrote: post #16

I actually was sitting outside a few nights ago and realized that there was no more fireflies, and I couldn't remember the last time I had seen one. I used to go out all the time during summer as a kid to catch them, they would light up whole fields. That was just like 15 years ago. Pretty sobering realization

I'm in Chicago (in a neighborhood close to downtown) and in previous years I'd hardly ever seen any fireflies. This year, they're everywhere -- in parks and even in trees on neighborhood streets. I understand fireflies are sensitive to light pollution. I can't imagine Chicago's any different from other major cities. COVID has people staying home a lot more but that has nothing to do with street lighting. I wonder wha…

I've noticed the uptick in fireflies too, but I attributed it to the mild winter we had compared to the deep freeze of 2018-2019. Spring was also warm and wet very early.

We also had the sub-Brood XIII cicadas launch out in the western suburbs which was insane. They came early and they came out in huge numbers.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#142

Post by ljcn » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #129

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

Was reserving lawns for humans and all of the countryside for bees not already a pretty sweet deal? How are we being out-negotiated by insects?

Wouldn't you rather share a garden with insects? I would.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#143

Post by rubber_duck » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

>has led to the near-extinction of bees in residential areas

Why do you want bees in residential areas ? I think that it's illegal to keep bees in some proximity to residential areas around here (my grandparents used to keep bees).

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#144

Post by zackmorris » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

upofadown wrote: post #133

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

>... other broadleaf herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). Glyphosate kills everything. If you use it as a broadleaf herbicide you are going to have a very bad week...

Ah thanks you're right, I updated my comment.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#145

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

masswerk wrote: post #79

marviel wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what you mean about the risks of cold LED light? I'm unfamiliar with this problem

The basic light emitted by LEDs is generally quite cold (high color temperature). We can manufacture LEDs just in a few basic colors, where the blue ones are the most efficient. We haven't managed yet to produce something at scale like the light typically emitted by incandescent light bulbs. RGB light doesn't help here, since this is still emitting high temperature components, which are only mixed with lower energize…

What cost? Looking back maybe 15 years all the experiments with CCFL and LEDs were more costly than the filaments i have now. They last longer, use less, AND make light which is pleasing and usable to me. Wheee! Almost candles!

edit: Last longer as in have already outlasted anything I had before them, the filaments I mean. Also not really more expensive to buy. And their energy usage is ridiculously low.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#146

Post by jjcon » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:44 PM UTC

rspoerri wrote: post #15

Do you remember the time when you had to clean your windshield after driving into holidays?

Quite a bit of this is owed to traffic patterns and windshield glass changes though

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#147

Post by UncleOxidant » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

Maybe they could have a word with Bayer?

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#148

Post by bluntfang » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #126

bluntfang wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

any suggestions for a poison ivy patch? I'm doing the rounds of vinegar and placing tarps/boxes over the area, trying to avoid the nuclear option.

Can you not dig it up?

I think that's going to be part of my plan, but my housemate is extremely sensitive/allergic, so if I can avoid getting near the plant that would be awesome.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#149

Post by kickout » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:48 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

Agreed. Ending the chemical era in modern agriculture will be big (and enabled by SV) https://thinkingagriculture.io/innovation-efficiency-chemica...

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#150

Post by ChuckMcM » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

Wow. I have to say that I have never considered the case where insects needed to be saved. It seems to me that as lifeforms go, they have been the most durable form of multi-cellular life on the planet.

That said, that there are negative systemic effects on the planet's ecosystems that are directly related to the massive production and use of herbicides and pesticides is not as surprising.

Light though? Even after reading that article and looking through scholar.google to find papers that associate lighting with insect decline, I'm not convinced the use of lighting at night has a material impact. The ratio of unlit/lit habitat seems wildly in favor of unlit.

And yes, I understand that unlit areas are often agricultural, and those areas contain the most insecticide/herbicides. It still appears to me that the root cause is the use of those products in farms and not that cities are poor replacement habitats.