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.NET Team Survey: Native AOT

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Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#51

Post by ourmandave »

jiggawatts wrote: post #6
moksly wrote: post #2

I’ve been a C# developer for two (almost) decades, how do people even keep up with these rapid changes in the post Core world and what/when to use them? This is a serious question by the way.

I've honestly given up. The new "open" development style of .NET Core is not my cup of tea. It's now riddled with MVP features that are 80% complete, bug-ridden, and undocumented other than couple of blog articles. The compatibility break with the .NET Framework also removed the biggest advantage I saw in C#, which was that any code that I wrote would "just work". Now there's more frameworks, standards, cores, and bu…

Is MAUI the death knell for Project Reunion?

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#52

Post by josteink »

goto11 wrote: post #49
josteink wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It just sort of happened because the core project got out of control. A more accurate representation of events would be that .NET Core suddenly fueled a huge interest and growth in .NET as a platform which it hadn't seen in a long time (it was actually in decline!). Microsoft probably decided that for the overall, long-term health of the .NET platform it was more important to cater to these new users, than maintain…

There is no doubt multi-platform support is great for ASP.Net. The problem is that MS has coupled everything. So to take advantage of the newest version of C# you have to migrate to the platform-independent framework which may not support all libraries you are currently using. This is absurd - why are these things coupled? If I maintain some internal tool using windows forms I have no desire to rewrite to support Uni…

> And now we have a disaster which will dwarf the python 2/3 conundrum.

Given that Python 3 has been around for 12 years now, and still doesn't have universal adoption, I kinda doubt this is going to be near as bad a migration as that was.

At least .NET 5 will have compatible string-types once you've upgraded your projects :)

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#53

Post by pjmlp »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #50
pjmlp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of .NET Core is to bundle the framework with the application.

I thought the whole point was to become cross platform. You can install the runtime on its own. Bundling an application and the framework isn't a requirement.

Some .NET Framework libraries that were ported to .NET Core are never going to stop being Windows only.

Being cross platform is an nice side effect of the whole rebooting process.

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#54

Post by pjmlp »

ourmandave wrote: post #51
jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've honestly given up. The new "open" development style of .NET Core is not my cup of tea. It's now riddled with MVP features that are 80% complete, bug-ridden, and undocumented other than couple of blog articles. The compatibility break with the .NET Framework also removed the biggest advantage I saw in C#, which was that any code that I wrote would "just work". Now there's more frameworks, standards, cores, and bu…

Is MAUI the death knell for Project Reunion?

MAUI on Windows is based on WinUI, so no. Those projects are orthogonal.

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#55

Post by pjmlp »

jfkebwjsbx wrote: post #44
jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've honestly given up. The new "open" development style of .NET Core is not my cup of tea. It's now riddled with MVP features that are 80% complete, bug-ridden, and undocumented other than couple of blog articles. The compatibility break with the .NET Framework also removed the biggest advantage I saw in C#, which was that any code that I wrote would "just work". Now there's more frameworks, standards, cores, and bu…

The problem is not the "open" development. The actual issue is this new Microsoft full of half-done projects and trying to reduce engineering costs. They even try to make others write the documentation for their products... MSDN is gone and now docs are a mess. Ballmer was a mess, but at least he got the devs-first bit right. Nowadays it is devs-last, cloud-first.

Here I have to sadly agree, but I think the cause is something else. Lots of new blood full with ideas to leave their mark.

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#56

Post by pjmlp »

lwansbrough wrote: post #26

Man it would be sweet to see Unity adopt CoreRT in .NET 5 and just drop all the C++ conversion nonsense. Edit: interesting, someone wrote about this a couple years ago: https://xoofx.com/blog/2018/04/06/porting-unity-to-coreclr I wonder if there’s movement on this internally at Unity.

Why should they, IL2CPP and Burst compilers is able to do C++ like optimizations that .NET is still far from being able to (they have actually two nowadays).

.NET 5 also doesn't run in all platforms that Unity targets.

Rich ecosystems only have to gain from multiple implementations.

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#57

Post by D_Guidi »

moksly wrote: post #2

I’ve been a C# developer for two (almost) decades, how do people even keep up with these rapid changes in the post Core world and what/when to use them? This is a serious question by the way.

Keep in mind that, although I partially agree with you, other platforms are way-worse than .NET. think about nodejs mess and client-side ecosystem, where things break almost at any minor release. Dev world is going fast, and I think that the choice for .NET is to embrace change or die as an old platform. My2Cents.

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#58

Post by [deleted] »

josteink wrote: post #52
goto11 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no doubt multi-platform support is great for ASP.Net. The problem is that MS has coupled everything. So to take advantage of the newest version of C# you have to migrate to the platform-independent framework which may not support all libraries you are currently using. This is absurd - why are these things coupled? If I maintain some internal tool using windows forms I have no desire to rewrite to support Uni…

> And now we have a disaster which will dwarf the python 2/3 conundrum. Given that Python 3 has been around for 12 years now, and still doesn't have universal adoption, I kinda doubt this is going to be near as bad a migration as that was. At least .NET 5 will have compatible string-types once you've upgraded your projects :)

[deleted]

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#59

Post by goto11 »

josteink wrote: post #52
goto11 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no doubt multi-platform support is great for ASP.Net. The problem is that MS has coupled everything. So to take advantage of the newest version of C# you have to migrate to the platform-independent framework which may not support all libraries you are currently using. This is absurd - why are these things coupled? If I maintain some internal tool using windows forms I have no desire to rewrite to support Uni…

> And now we have a disaster which will dwarf the python 2/3 conundrum. Given that Python 3 has been around for 12 years now, and still doesn't have universal adoption, I kinda doubt this is going to be near as bad a migration as that was. At least .NET 5 will have compatible string-types once you've upgraded your projects :)

> Given that Python 3 has been around for 12 years now, and still doesn't have universal adoption, I kinda doubt this is going to be near as bad a migration as that was.

Given that .net is much more entrenched than Python was 12 years ago, I think it going to take a lot longer! Frameworks like WebForms and WCF will not be ported, so projects depending on these will require massive rewrites. This a lot more work than fixing string encodings and putting parentheses after "print".

Re: .NET Team Survey: Native AOT

#60

Post by arethuza »

jfkebwjsbx wrote: post #40
arethuza wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had VS 2019 open and tried this - creating an empty project is the first entry on the list of templates - all it contains is a minimal Program.cs and Startup.cs - nothing else. When run all it does is return "Hello World!" in plain text - it doesn't even use HTML.

GP is not talking about an empty app project.

It's a minimalist web app that responds to HTTP requests without using MVC, not a console app?
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