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Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#241

Post by partyboat1586 »

devaboone wrote: post #164
dropin685 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here (below) is a quote from the article, on the subject of calcium. (I suppose some of us may be reluctant or unable to have calcium levels monitored. But it seems all of us should be taking vitamin K2 along with our vitamin D.) >The authors explicitly point out that each vitamin D supplementation must be accompanied by sufficient vitamin K2. This certainly prevents the rise of the calcium level in the blood, which…

Vitamin K2 does help bones absorb calcium, but it will not prevent the blood calcium level from rising if you are really taking more Vitamin D than you need. This is simply wishful thinking.

A vitamin K deficiency with normal vitamin D levels would cause blood calcium levels to rise. Many people are deficient in vitamin K since it's mostly found in leafy greens and liver, no one's favourite foods. The difficulty is judging what is a normal vitamin D level by incidence of people with elevated calcium levels in the blood without having tested all of those people for vitamin K deficiency first.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#242

Post by partyboat1586 »

devaboone wrote: post #155
mellosouls wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without a reference to go by a quick Google indicates toxicity is only likely by taking far above recommended levels (max recommended is 4000iu daily) for an extended period. Presumably people on those kind of doses are taking it under medical supervision, or are idiots/under the control of idiots. I am not a doctor, but without further information it seems that as ever, following the guidance on legit supplies speci…

There are some very vocal people who argue that the risk of toxicity is very low. The studies aren't great. But for most people, taking a moderate dose of Vitamin D will be safe. Unfortunately, I have treated many patients who come to me with high calcium levels due to taking Vitamin D. They do not have parathyroid disease (I have treated thousands of patients with parathyroid disease). They have simply been taking h…

Do you test for vitamin K defficiency before taking the patients off vitamin D supplements?

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#243

Post by kovach »

batrachom wrote: post #176

This article is (badly) written by un-qualified authors (two software developers). This would be enough to raise at least a few red flags on the conclusions drawn here. Has it even been peer reviewed? From a first look, there no way this work would have been published by any reputable journal. If there is any truth in what the authors claim, the best they could do is to work with field experts and/or submit their fin…

Here is an old clinical practice guideline article (2011) from The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism talking about Vitamin D deficiency and recommendations for correcting it:

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/96/7/1911/2833671

You can see that prevalence of deficiency is very high, as this other peer-reviewed study confirms:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21310306/

In the first article, after correcting the deficiency, the maintenance dose that they give is: 600-1000 IU/d for children; 1500–2000 IU/d for adults; 3000–6000 IU/d for obese. As you can see that's much higher than the current RDA of 400 IU/d.

And to correct the deficiency in the first place, the dose needs to be 2-3 times higher still for 8 weeks.

So around half the people in the US need to be taking a very large dose for 8 weeks, and then a maintenance dose 4-15 times higher than the RDA.

This is all from established studies done long ago that no one has disputed. But their recommendations have yet to be implemented in a lot of places, which might be why some countries fare better than others.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#244

Post by [deleted] »

devaboone wrote: post #143
wpasc wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "wacky" levels? I can't tell from your comment if that means high or low. Asking as a Vitamin D supplement user who uses 2-3k IU a day

Hi, I'm the wife. High dose Vitamin D can cause elevated calcium levels (meaning over 10.0 mg/dl for adults over 40, it can be a little higher for younger adults). I usually don't see that occur with doses at 2-3 K IU daily. You can also check your Vitamin D 25-OH levels (the level that will be done if you just get a standard "Vitamin D level") and these should be in a reasonable range. What constitutes reasonable ma…

[deleted]

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#245

Post by [deleted] »

kazinator wrote: post #192
devaboone wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I'm the wife. High dose Vitamin D can cause elevated calcium levels (meaning over 10.0 mg/dl for adults over 40, it can be a little higher for younger adults). I usually don't see that occur with doses at 2-3 K IU daily. You can also check your Vitamin D 25-OH levels (the level that will be done if you just get a standard "Vitamin D level") and these should be in a reasonable range. What constitutes reasonable ma…

Hi; is there anything documented about the following effect of taking high-ish doses of Vitamin D3 for a while: a tooth/jaw sensitivity appears, like you can "feel your teeth"? In the past I have used that as as signal to back off on the Vitamin D. What is the mechanism?

[deleted]

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#246

Post by gauchojs »

devaboone wrote: post #171
graeme wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great answer, thanks. So measuring blood levels of vitamin D and setting a specific target no higher than 50 ng/ml should be enough to avoid this problem for most people? Or could taking a high daily dose for a short time to get to the desired blood level cause trouble as well? Finally, do you see much difference in getting to that high blood level of vitamin D from sun exposure vs D in diet (fish, etc) vs supplement…

Some people can tolerate Vitamin D levels above 50, so I wouldn't set that as an absolute cutoff - a Vitamin D in the 50s is good for many people, but I definitely don't want to see it above 70. Taking a higher dose for a short period of time is completely acceptable, as long as it doesn't become something that you stay on for years. It is really hard, if not impossible, to get toxic levels of Vitamin D solely from t…

The supplements with 10000 IU are very common these days... now you scared me..

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#247

Post by pure_simplicity »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #184
pure_simplicity wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what could be happening if taking vitamin D gives you severe headaches that last for days and gradually get weaker? If you need more information, please ask away.

As someone who has worked on various deficiencies over the years, including vitamin D, I will suggest it means the dose you are taking is probably too high. When I had similar issues, reducing my sun exposure -- which was how I was improving my vitamin D status at the time -- resolved the headaches and vomiting that I was experiencing.

Thanks for the response. I'm surprised you can even get too much D with sun exposure. The thing is: I used to take vitamin D supplements fairly regularly, but now I barely take any. I will go weeks without supplementing, but when I do, I get headaches. No increased urination though, which would happen if i had excess calcium, and no nausea/vomiting.

Last time, i tried 5000IU, but this came after weeks of not taking any D supplement, and I've not taken any since. My reasoning is: that would effectively make the average dose < 400 IU, so shouldn't give me any problems, yet it does. Maybe I'm getting more from the sun than i realize :/

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#249

Post by DoreenMichele »

pure_simplicity wrote: post #247
DoreenMichele wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has worked on various deficiencies over the years, including vitamin D, I will suggest it means the dose you are taking is probably too high. When I had similar issues, reducing my sun exposure -- which was how I was improving my vitamin D status at the time -- resolved the headaches and vomiting that I was experiencing.

Thanks for the response. I'm surprised you can even get too much D with sun exposure. The thing is: I used to take vitamin D supplements fairly regularly, but now I barely take any. I will go weeks without supplementing, but when I do, I get headaches. No increased urination though, which would happen if i had excess calcium, and no nausea/vomiting. Last time, i tried 5000IU, but this came after weeks of not taking a…

I'm surprised you can even get too much D with sun exposure.

I'm a special case. Trying to explain that is probably a can of worms.

shouldn't give me any problems, yet it does

There may be other factors there, which I could potentially speculate on. But A. It tends to be a can of worms when I start speculating like that and B. You didn't initially give enough info to really warrant such speculation. You only gave enough to make me feel like the safe bet was to comment on the dosage and leave it at that.

Re: Vitamin D deficiency and Covid-19 mortality [pdf]

#250

Post by ausjke »

devaboone wrote: post #191
cactus2093 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you still consider 5,000 IU of Vitamin D per day safe as far as these calcium issues go? I had a doctor tell me to take that dose for at least a few months a few years ago after low levels in my bloodwork during the winter. But I've never known if I should lower the dose to take on a continuing basis or adjust during the summer when I get a little more sun (but I still work in an office/at home so spend a lot o…

I do see people get high calcium levels after being on this dose for years. But not always. You may be able to handle that dose. If you are getting "routine" labs done, then there is likely a calcium level in there. If your calcium is normal (under 10.0 mg/dl for adults over 40, younger adults can be a little higher), then your Vitamin D dose is ok... but I would still recommend coming down a bit on that dose. It is…

just checked my "Vitamin D, 25 OH" test:

result: 13.3 ng/ml, normal range: 25.0 - 80.0 ng/ml

I'm taking Vitamin D3 Max 125MCG per day, is this "overdose"?

Thanks,

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