Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This all agree with the benchmarks in which Intel still generally is ahead on single thread performance. citation needed. benchmarks that I've seen [0][1] there is not that big of difference between the two. [0] https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-grav... ZEN1 [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/14694/amd-rome-epyc-2nd-gen/9 ZEN2
https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks Even normalizing for the frequency isn't enough to explain the difference
What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
51–60 of 117 posts
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#52> Ryzen’s “Hyper-Threading” looked good because of poor single-threaded performance So if my CPU is one of the worst in single-threaded performance, then multi-threaded performance will be the best? That make no sense and this guy doesn't seem like he knows what he is talking about..
He's completely right. Hyperthreading is all about putting idle functional units to work when you can't extract instruction level parallelism from single threaded code. His claim is that Intel processors did better and thus only got a small relative boost from HT (IIRC it used to be 10%, maybe it's 20% now). If your processor does poorer at ILP extraction, you get relatively more out of HT. This all agree with the be…
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#53> Ryzen’s “Hyper-Threading” looked good because of poor single-threaded performance So if my CPU is one of the worst in single-threaded performance, then multi-threaded performance will be the best? That make no sense and this guy doesn't seem like he knows what he is talking about..
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#54Sometimes I'm wondering if the best (but software side maybe impractical) design for (non Threadripper level) consumer PC's would be something along the line of.
- 1 single non SMT core with most advanced pipeline optimizations and highest clock speed which only always runs one thread pinned to it (many consumers tend to only run one "costy" applications with need for highest performance at the same time, e.g. a game main event loop).
- around this 4+ SMT enabled cores which are (mostly/reasonably) specter save and have less max. clock speed (other open applications, other threads from the current game, should be good enough for most applications)
- 1+ very low power cores which might have another arch (for the background maintenance tasks of the OS and programs like e.g. update jobs, slow long polling, always-on/connected features etc.)
- 1+ crypto core with integrated hardware security module, used to thinks like signing AES keys and similar (e.g. setup but not run TLS)
Through it's probably unrealistic as e.g. thermal regulations for high speed threads is optimized by "bouncing" the logical thread between cores and software tends to not want to do things like write the background maintenance code for a different arch then the rest of the software, well phone OS probably could force this. Microsoft + Intel kinda can't.
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#55Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#56I'm not knowing how much of this things are true, but isn't it ironic that AMD has more benefits from SMT because they have less pipeline optimizations (and similar), but exactly this pipeline optimizations (and similar) seem to be at least partially at fault for some of the Specter style attacks and make it harder to put more cores into the system (as this additional optimizations are likely need more silicon space.…
The problem with this type of system is both the software and OS have to be aware of what is or isn't a "main thread" job. You have to architect your whole program around job systems to spread your data between the main thread and sub-processes which was a major complaint of gamedevs for the PS3. There's also the fact that many consumer software developers just don't care and will flag all of their processes as high priority jobs.
It worked out decently well on PS3 because it was such a locked down system, but for a general purpose desktop it would be utter chaos.
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#57I'm not knowing how much of this things are true, but isn't it ironic that AMD has more benefits from SMT because they have less pipeline optimizations (and similar), but exactly this pipeline optimizations (and similar) seem to be at least partially at fault for some of the Specter style attacks and make it harder to put more cores into the system (as this additional optimizations are likely need more silicon space.…
I can't wait for real-world usage benchmarks of their ARM CPUs once actual production machines are out in the hands of actual customers. It has the potential to upend the entire laptop market.
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#58What are Intel's plans for HSA or RISC-5? How good are their AI products? RealSense seems pretty exciting to me.
Is there going to be a successor to the PC design? My crazy hope is that we will get some type of module system where you don't have to open the case and can just plug in something like M.2 modules but with a superfast nextgen bus.
Is there an upstart chipmaker that can help push Intel out (I wish)? I have heard good things about Nuvia.
When I hear about a company that is not run by engineers making bad decisions and pissing off engineers, I am actually eager to see them die. Just like I wish Boeing would die for similar reasons. But I know that both are very unlikely to go away. One can always dream.
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Francois is a smart guy, but there's a range of opinions on the matters he raises. We argue a good deal on Twitter ("constructive confrontation" between former Intel Principal Engineers :-) ). He put together the video pretty quickly so don't dismiss it just for lack of polish. Personally, I argue with him a lot on AVX-512. I think AVX-512 is a Good Thing (or will be shortly - the first instantiation in Skylake Serve…
Oh, I should note that an interest in large SIMD is not confined to Intel - the ARM world is (slowly) heading towards SVE (or so my friends from that quarter assure me). So it's not just a partisan pro-Intel or pro-x86 thing on my part.
Re: What's wrong with Intel, and how to fix it: Former principal engineer unloads
#60> Ryzen’s “Hyper-Threading” looked good because of poor single-threaded performance So if my CPU is one of the worst in single-threaded performance, then multi-threaded performance will be the best? That make no sense and this guy doesn't seem like he knows what he is talking about..
He's completely right. Hyperthreading is all about putting idle functional units to work when you can't extract instruction level parallelism from single threaded code. His claim is that Intel processors did better and thus only got a small relative boost from HT (IIRC it used to be 10%, maybe it's 20% now). If your processor does poorer at ILP extraction, you get relatively more out of HT. This all agree with the be…