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American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

justice.gov

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Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#21

Post by bgorman »

bjo590 wrote: post #7
seibelj wrote: post #6

A victimless crime - unless you think we should be locking up all of the alcohol sellers? Alcohol addiction is a sad, sad affair. I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk.

> I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk. The two addictions are more or less the same. Someone addicted to street heroin can substitute pharmaceutical grade opioids. Someone addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids can substitute street heroin. This is largely a class discrepancy, as the higher tolerance a person has the more expensive…

However, given the choice you would choose the pharmaceutical grade right? You are even asserting it is associated with social class. The Costa Rican doctor is actually making safer drugs available to a broader market. In that light, I think you could interpret the Doctor's actions as moral as he is simply meeting a market demand and is providing the least harmful product to meet that need.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#22

Post by fiblye »

>“These charges are a warning to drug traffickers worldwide that neither the shroud of the darknet or of virtual currency can hide their illegal activities from the vigilance of U.S. law enforcement,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin for the District of Columbia.

The real warning to heed here is that we allow some countries to arrest citizens of other countries who committed crimes outside of their borders.

I know what extradition is, but the concept of spending your whole life in country A, and having country B decide it's time to arrest you and charge you within their jurisdiction makes me uncomfortable. I think more people will oppose it once global power balances start to shift this century.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#23

Post by Aerroon »

263943736 wrote: post #9
CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

Opioids are among the best medications for treating severe pain. If we're focusing on patients I'd much rather focus on rehabilitative strategies since the current degree of increased scrutiny is already making accessing adequate medication more difficult for groups like the elderly or people with chronic pain. Even more increased oversight is just going to escalate hesitation among doctors.

I wonder where most of the harm is coming from with opioids. Do the opioids themselves cause more harm than society does by making them illegal?

The cases I've mostly heard about seemed to be that people hot addicted to opioids and the only way to keep it going was to break the law. That eventually got them in trouble. For some drugs it does seem like the government trying to protect you from the drugs do more harm than what the drugs themselves do. Are opioids among them?

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#24

Post by TylerE »

KerrickStaley wrote: post #18
CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

> even moderate use can be balanced with a healthy lifestyle Genuinely curious: this doesn't really mesh with my understanding. I think opioids are extremely addictive (more so than tobacco or even cocaine or amphetamine) and as a result it's nearly impossible to be a "casual" user (and therefore I don't ever intend to try any opioids). Is there evidence that opioids can be "moderately" used?

They are extremely addictive. No one disputes that.

The actual drugs here - I’m talking pure, regulated pharmaceutical versions - are pretty benign physiologically. Constipation is about the worst of it.

The combination products (opioid plus something else) are a bit worse - but in those cases it’s the other thing (usually Tylenol) that’s actually hard on your body, especially the liver.

Although it’s much less common these days due to all the regulation, many doctors kept a up successful practices for decades while self medicating heavily.

What gets people killed are either things sold as other things (e.g. heroin laced with fentanyl, which is much stronger) or propel who quit for a while and then go right back to their old dose and OF because their tolerance is gone.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#25

Post by bobthepanda »

fiblye wrote: post #22

>“These charges are a warning to drug traffickers worldwide that neither the shroud of the darknet or of virtual currency can hide their illegal activities from the vigilance of U.S. law enforcement,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin for the District of Columbia. The real warning to heed here is that we allow some countries to arrest citizens of other countries who committed crimes outside of their borders.…

This is already starting to happen.

A bunch of countries suspended extradition to Hong Kong after all the recent power consolidation by China because while they trusted an independent Hong Kong to have reasonable limits on its judiciary they do not trust China to do the same; after all this is a country that dismisses "rule of law". And in fact the whole protest situation was caused by Hong Kong's Government introducing a poorly worded extradition bill that would've essentially given carte blanche for Chinese extradition. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/world/asia/hong-kong-extr...

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#26

Post by techntoke »

seibelj wrote: post #8
bjo590 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk. The two addictions are more or less the same. Someone addicted to street heroin can substitute pharmaceutical grade opioids. Someone addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids can substitute street heroin. This is largely a class discrepancy, as the higher tolerance a person has the more expensive…

I don't believe I commit any crime when I put any substance of my choice into my own body, regardless of what the state says.

Right!?! Legalizing drugs would solve a lot of issues and let people actually address and talk about the real problems which is often mental health, however there are a lot of things like mushrooms and LSD that may cause people to "wake up" and not want to be a slave to the system anymore and I think that is mostly what they fear. People realizing they have more choice and power than they've been led to believe.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#27

Post by sva_ »

jimkleiber wrote: post #14
CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

Your comment reminds me of an episode of Joe Rogan with Johann Hari [1], talking about what really causes addiction and the failures of the "war on drugs." He states, "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection." (18:08) The former U.S. surgeon general, Vivek Murthy, declared loneliness an epidemic, and just wrote a book on it [2]. I believe the biggest challenge we face in the…

> How did this man get so numb to selling products that he knew were causing so much pain and suffering to others?

If I had to take a guess, his income as the vice president of sales probably helped with that.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#28

Post by zamadatix »

fiblye wrote: post #22

>“These charges are a warning to drug traffickers worldwide that neither the shroud of the darknet or of virtual currency can hide their illegal activities from the vigilance of U.S. law enforcement,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin for the District of Columbia. The real warning to heed here is that we allow some countries to arrest citizens of other countries who committed crimes outside of their borders.…

What extradition "is" has almost nothing to do with the concern, it's all about the clauses in the extradition treaty about how it must be done. In the case of Costa Rica and the US it requires dual criminality, can't be a political or military crime, can't have passed the statute of limitations, and can be denied at will if the person is a national of the requested country.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#29

Post by dkdk8283 »

bjo590 wrote: post #7
seibelj wrote: post #6

A victimless crime - unless you think we should be locking up all of the alcohol sellers? Alcohol addiction is a sad, sad affair. I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk.

> I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk. The two addictions are more or less the same. Someone addicted to street heroin can substitute pharmaceutical grade opioids. Someone addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids can substitute street heroin. This is largely a class discrepancy, as the higher tolerance a person has the more expensive…

Street oxy is super expensive. Heroin is a lot cheaper. 5-6 times cheaper where I’m at.

Why’s it expensive? Because of the ridiculous war on drugs.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#30

Post by Kalium »

fiblye wrote: post #22

>“These charges are a warning to drug traffickers worldwide that neither the shroud of the darknet or of virtual currency can hide their illegal activities from the vigilance of U.S. law enforcement,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin for the District of Columbia. The real warning to heed here is that we allow some countries to arrest citizens of other countries who committed crimes outside of their borders.…

One of the interesting caveats about extraditions treaties is that they generally only apply to things that the country doing the expediting consider to be criminal.

With that in mind, someone spends their life in country A and does a bunch of things country A considers illegal and involve country B. This isn't an obvious caveat and isn't discussed much, so I can understand where nothing here would surface it.

Extradition treaties mean that things don't become de facto legal because an international border is involved. Though I understand if some might consider such treaties to be simple abuses of hegemonic imperialism.

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