American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged • Hacker News Board

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#11

Post by solinent » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:29 AM UTC

263943736 wrote: post #9

CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

Opioids are among the best medications for treating severe pain. If we're focusing on patients I'd much rather focus on rehabilitative strategies since the current degree of increased scrutiny is already making accessing adequate medication more difficult for groups like the elderly or people with chronic pain. Even more increased oversight is just going to escalate hesitation among doctors.

Opioids don't aid in recovery though--they're not a band-aid, they're simply a veneer. They can prevent recovery since they delays][ physical rehabilitation. I honestly think cannabis is a much better solution long-term, but good luck transitioning an opiate user to cannabis.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#12

Post by rib3ye » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:41 AM UTC

263943736 wrote: post #9

CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

Opioids are among the best medications for treating severe pain. If we're focusing on patients I'd much rather focus on rehabilitative strategies since the current degree of increased scrutiny is already making accessing adequate medication more difficult for groups like the elderly or people with chronic pain. Even more increased oversight is just going to escalate hesitation among doctors.

Check out therapies targeting sodium channels. I found out through my wife that her company (a major pharma corp) is working on therapeutics that can block voltage to certain sodium channels in the brain to suppress pain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5350027/

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#13

Post by 263943736 » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:41 AM UTC

solinent wrote: post #11

263943736 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opioids are among the best medications for treating severe pain. If we're focusing on patients I'd much rather focus on rehabilitative strategies since the current degree of increased scrutiny is already making accessing adequate medication more difficult for groups like the elderly or people with chronic pain. Even more increased oversight is just going to escalate hesitation among doctors.

Opioids don't aid in recovery though--they're not a band-aid, they're simply a veneer. They can prevent recovery since they delays][ physical rehabilitation. I honestly think cannabis is a much better solution long-term, but good luck transitioning an opiate user to cannabis.

Not being in crippling pain is usually considered a good thing. Sure, some things like a broken arm can probably get by with weed and yes some people respond exceptionally well to weed but there is a night and day difference between the two when it comes to treating most forms of severe pain such as what people with significant spinal trauma experience or what the elderly often (for any number of reasons ultimately relating to age) experience.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#14

Post by jimkleiber » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:43 AM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

Your comment reminds me of an episode of Joe Rogan with Johann Hari [1], talking about what really causes addiction and the failures of the "war on drugs."

He states, "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection." (18:08)

The former U.S. surgeon general, Vivek Murthy, declared loneliness an epidemic, and just wrote a book on it [2].

I believe the biggest challenge we face in the United States centers on emotional health. How do we feel? Whom do we trust? Who do we think loves us? How do we rebuild trust? How do we apologize and forgive? How do we grieve?

I watched a 60 Minutes episode talking about some of the pharma reps trying to convince doctors to prescribe more opioids [3]. One rep, Alec Burlakoff, had this interchange with the interviewer:

> Bill Whitaker: You're preying on these people-- > Alec Burlakoff: Yeah, because they're desperate. They'll try anything. And they may get relief from Subsys initially, But we all know what's gonna happen. We know. We've been doin' this long enough. We know how it ends. > Bill Whitaker: And that is? > Alec Burlakoff: It ends in addiction, withdrawal, pain, suffering, and even death. > Bill Whitaker: And you didn't care about that? > Alec Burlakoff: Back then, I was numb to that.

This reminds me that while I often think that the people who feel disconnected are the ones using the opioids, very often the ones selling them also feel disconnected. How did this man get so numb to selling products that he knew were causing so much pain and suffering to others? How did he get so numb in life in general? More importantly, how do we help him feel more alive?

I agree, I don't think the Department of Justice, especially with a focus on punishment rather than rehabilitation, can lift us out of this hole. I believe it will require a focus on emotional health, on repairing relationships, on helping us feel less distant, more close, to our friends, family, neighbors, and fellow Americans.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDpjvFn4wgM [2]: https://www.amazon.com/Together-Connection-Performance-Great... [3]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioid-epidemic-pharmaceutical-...

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#15

Post by solinent » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:48 AM UTC

263943736 wrote: post #13

solinent wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opioids don't aid in recovery though--they're not a band-aid, they're simply a veneer. They can prevent recovery since they delays][ physical rehabilitation. I honestly think cannabis is a much better solution long-term, but good luck transitioning an opiate user to cannabis.

Not being in crippling pain is usually considered a good thing. Sure, some things like a broken arm can probably get by with weed and yes some people respond exceptionally well to weed but there is a night and day difference between the two when it comes to treating most forms of severe pain such as what people with significant spinal trauma experience or what the elderly often (for any number of reasons ultimately r…

I agree (it's meaningless though, I'm just pointing out the obvious above, I'm not an expert here) for acute injury it makes sense to use opioids in severe cases like you mention, however, I think we still need to find the best strains and cultivate them for pain use, we've only scratched the surface with cannabis, it's a big genus. Weed ain't what it used to be.

For chronic cases, I think chronic makes a lot of sense.

Pain helps you get moving. Opioid's don't. Too much pain is debilitating. Surely we can find a formula here (a very very large one).

Cannabis never removes all the pain. I think that's the main feature here.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#16

Post by peteretep » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:51 AM UTC

jimkleiber wrote: post #14

CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

Your comment reminds me of an episode of Joe Rogan with Johann Hari [1], talking about what really causes addiction and the failures of the "war on drugs." He states, "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection." (18:08) The former U.S. surgeon general, Vivek Murthy, declared loneliness an epidemic, and just wrote a book on it [2]. I believe the biggest challenge we face in the…

> Johann Hari

A man whose professional experience is journalist and has no science, medical, public health, or psychotherapy background... and he’s trying to sell a book.

Is this too harsh a take? Is there a reason I should be taking his opinion seriously?

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#17

Post by ghthor » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:58 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #16

jimkleiber wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminds me of an episode of Joe Rogan with Johann Hari [1], talking about what really causes addiction and the failures of the "war on drugs." He states, "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection." (18:08) The former U.S. surgeon general, Vivek Murthy, declared loneliness an epidemic, and just wrote a book on it [2]. I believe the biggest challenge we face in the…

> Johann Hari A man whose professional experience is journalist and has no science, medical, public health, or psychotherapy background... and he’s trying to sell a book. Is this too harsh a take? Is there a reason I should be taking his opinion seriously?

Because it's a novel opinion, and novel opinions are what a good scientist needs to make major breakthroughs. I sure people were saying the same things about Galileo as there were of the women from Alexandria before him, etc.

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#18

Post by KerrickStaley » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 3:59 AM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Justice is such a poor way to describe what is happening here. I have full empathy with those who have struggled with opioid addiction or lost loved ones to the disease. But the fact is that opioid prescriptions are still being written with too little oversight, too few safeguards, and not enough support for patients. Withstanding such contradiction in treatment of opioid suppliers, the federal government cannot keep…

> even moderate use can be balanced with a healthy lifestyle

Genuinely curious: this doesn't really mesh with my understanding. I think opioids are extremely addictive (more so than tobacco or even cocaine or amphetamine) and as a result it's nearly impossible to be a "casual" user (and therefore I don't ever intend to try any opioids). Is there evidence that opioids can be "moderately" used?

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#19

Post by ikeboy » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:02 AM UTC

fbi-director wrote: post #5

refurb wrote: post #3

I see Silkroad mentioned, so I’m assuming these were crimes committed years ago? 23,900 bitcoin? That was a big business. No wonder why they were targeted.

If it truly was at the time of the original silkroad, you have to consider the change in value of btc since then to get a more realistic idea of the size and value of their business. Not saying it wasn't big, no idea, just stating we should consider that fact.

2013 - 2018, per indictment

Re: American darknet vendor and Costa Rican pharmacist charged

#20

Post by stickfigure » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 4:10 AM UTC

bjo590 wrote: post #7

seibelj wrote: post #6

A victimless crime - unless you think we should be locking up all of the alcohol sellers? Alcohol addiction is a sad, sad affair. I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk.

> I would rather someone be addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids than street heroin laced with fentanyl and other junk. The two addictions are more or less the same. Someone addicted to street heroin can substitute pharmaceutical grade opioids. Someone addicted to pharmaceutical grade opioids can substitute street heroin. This is largely a class discrepancy, as the higher tolerance a person has the more expensive…

If you actually care about the human behind the addiction, pharmaceuticals are vastly less likely to land your child or loved one in a morgue. Addicts recover all the time, if they live long enough.