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Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

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Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#81

Post by cik2e »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #76
ohazi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to fight the perception that PLBs are expensive specialty gadgets meant for professional explorers [1]. They should be considered as basic and as necessary as a life vest, seat belt, or bike helmet. You should not be backpacking on the Appalachian trail without one. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435

How would you feel about a $300 fee to use the national parks? If a PLB is required in all but law then that's almost the same effect. IMO that kind of goes against the spirit of having national parks and other purposely undeveloped areas. Sure it would be nice if everyone had one but I don't wanna make hiking and camping, which can be very cheap ways to recreate if you want them to be, instantly $300 more expensive.

I think this is more for serious wilderness hiking and camping, not a trek through a national park with designated campgrounds.

High quality backpacks and hiking boots are around $200, and tents are easily double that. If you’re going on hikes that pose a realistic chance of getting stranded, you’re probably pretty serious and already paying for premium equipment. In which case, another $300 for peace of mind shouldn’t be a dealbreaker.

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#82

Post by ohazi »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #76
ohazi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trying to fight the perception that PLBs are expensive specialty gadgets meant for professional explorers [1]. They should be considered as basic and as necessary as a life vest, seat belt, or bike helmet. You should not be backpacking on the Appalachian trail without one. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24065435

How would you feel about a $300 fee to use the national parks? If a PLB is required in all but law then that's almost the same effect. IMO that kind of goes against the spirit of having national parks and other purposely undeveloped areas. Sure it would be nice if everyone had one but I don't wanna make hiking and camping, which can be very cheap ways to recreate if you want them to be, instantly $300 more expensive.

The vast majority of people that visit national parks stay at campsites that are attached to parking lots, that have running water and bathroom facilities, and that have at least some cell reception. Many of these are attached to well marked, well traveled trails with amazing views that make for excellent all-day hikes. You don't need a PLB to visit one of these camp sites or hike some of these trails.

But if your off-the-grid campsite is a 30 hour hike from the nearest road, and half of that hike includes a mountain scramble and a trek across a frozen alpine lake, then I'm sorry, but you can't responsibly plan such a trip in 2020 and not carry a PLB.

Between your clothes, boots, jackets, shelter, backpack, food, fuel, cooking gear, and navigation equipment, you're likely carrying at least $1000 of equipment. You can figure out how to borrow a PLB.

Spending days flying circles around a vast wilderness where somebody might have gotten lost is expensive and time consuming and takes resources away from other people who might need them. It took 20 years to get Sarsat up and running and for PLBs to get cheap, and now rescue organizations all over the planet are asking you to please, for your sake, for theirs, and for the sake of other people who may also need emergency services, carry a goddamn PLB if you're going to go off the grid.

Contrary to popular belief, going out into the wilderness is not about eschewing all technology. You still need to be responsible, and today, for certain activities, that means carrying a tiny piece of emergency equipment at the bottom of your backpack that you hope to never have to touch.

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#83

Post by crooked-v »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #43
oh_sigh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are just personal locator beacons which you can rent and tell rescue personnel exactly where you are if you need a rescue.

This is the right answer. A Garmin InReach or similar device with two-way messaging capabilities should be regarded as standard equipment now for anyone going into backcountry or remote areas. The two-way messaging allows local rescue teams to assess your condition, confirm your location, and deploy the appropriate resources more quickly.

Though, keep in mind that the satellite messenger's battery is going to run lower much faster if you use it much (and paying at least a $12/mo subscription for it on top of the purchase price, you'll probably be pretty tempted to use it), while a PLB never runs down from use because you only ever use it in a definite emergency.

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#84

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

kingnothing wrote: post #51
ohazi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "search" part of search and rescue is a solved problem. There's no reason to go into the wilderness without a PLB in 2020. PLBs cost around $300 [1], they have five+ year batteries, and they don't require a subscription. If you need to use it, you turn it on, it grabs a GPS lock and transmits your coordinates for about a day, during which at least one satellite will see your signal and downlinks all over the plan…

If you use a PLB to get rescued, do you then owe a big check to the rescuing organization like when you call for an ambulance in the USA?

I know some PLBs have a $15,000 insurance coverage plan for life flights. Generally more expensive to get a helicopter rid e in the US however.

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#85

Post by crooked-v »

Razengan wrote: post #13
oh_sigh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there are just personal locator beacons which you can rent and tell rescue personnel exactly where you are if you need a rescue.

What if you lose them or they fail to work?

Then you've wasted $250, which at that point is presumably the least of your problems.

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#87

Post by prawn »

superfamicom wrote: post #21

I am happy they were found, but I often wonder if I would live out my "Castaway on the Moon" fantasy or make a giant SOS if I found myself in this predicament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castaway_on_the_Moon

Write SOS, then begin Castaway fantasy. If help arrives before you've had enough, ask if they could please come back and rescue you in a couple of weeks because you're trying to build a treehouse or setup irrigation channels for basic farming and you haven't even managed to spear your first fish yet.

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#88

Post by kbaker »

floatrock wrote: post #54
kingnothing wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use a PLB to get rescued, do you then owe a big check to the rescuing organization like when you call for an ambulance in the USA?

Yes, especially if the service calls a helicopter. The criticism against these is they've become so common that people either get overconfident and hike out beyond their abilities, or people call for help on minor issues like they didn't pack enough water or they get a headache.

Actually, I think that only in cases where you showed extreme lack of preparedness will you get a bill.

Most SAR organizations really don't want to have someone not call them because of the cost. Or worse, delay calling them and end up with a more time-critical or more dangerous rescue situation.

https://www.facebook.com/NoChargeforRescue/

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#89

Post by jointpdf »

floatrock wrote: post #54
kingnothing wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use a PLB to get rescued, do you then owe a big check to the rescuing organization like when you call for an ambulance in the USA?

Yes, especially if the service calls a helicopter. The criticism against these is they've become so common that people either get overconfident and hike out beyond their abilities, or people call for help on minor issues like they didn't pack enough water or they get a headache.

Corroborating the sister comment here—you are unlikely to be charged unless you do something grossly negligent—something like ignoring explicit warnings not to climb Mt. Whitney in adverse conditions and going unpermitted.

I can’t speak for what the policies are worldwide, but at least in the US (in particular California), you are very unlikely to be charged for the rescue services (medical costs are a different story). Usually the county is responsible for the SAR operation, which is typically carried out by volunteers. If you’re in a National Park, then it’s NPS. Again, they could fine you, but my understanding is that this is rare. Volunteers will even come looking for you for years after you’ve disappeared (https://www.climbing.com/people/vanished-the-mysterious-disa...).

Anecdote: I knew a (European) PCT hiker who was airlifted out of the Sierra. They were diabetic and had suffered a cut that for a healthy person would have been non-threatening. They were not charged anything. It would have been a shame if they hesitated due to fear of getting slapped with a bill.

Old but useful threads (and great forums in general—the HNs of backcountry travel):

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/14464/

http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=893...

> The vast majority of searches I have been on have no medical component whatsoever - in fact, none of the searches in the past several years, whether I have been on them or not, have involved medical intervention. A few have involved finding remains, which allow families closure and to make claims on life insurance - a community service that makes creeping through manzanita picking up bone shards worthwhile. If my family was depending on the income from life insurance and I vanished - I'd hope search teams found what was left of me. Some searches are related to law enforcement activities and locate evidence. Some searches are urban, and locate Alzheimer's sufferers or small children lost in town. None of them costs anyone a dime, and we don't appreciate the perpetuation of the myth that anyone is charged because we don't want to see anyone delay getting help when it's clear someone is missing.”

> ”Which is why our search team has never and will never charge anything. We are a self supporting nonprofit organization. We buy our own gear, pay for our own training, and raise the funds to replace team gear. I just wrote a grant proposal to get us new gps units and will shortly submit another. Madera, Merced, Fresno, Tulare, Inyo and other counties are all independent agencies, nonprofits, and do not charge a cent.”

Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand

#90

Post by runjake »

superfamicom wrote: post #21

I am happy they were found, but I often wonder if I would live out my "Castaway on the Moon" fantasy or make a giant SOS if I found myself in this predicament. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castaway_on_the_Moon

If you did choose to live out the fantasy, it wouldn’t be for long. The island is small and consumable resources are quite limited.
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