Earlier quoted context omitted.
The history of humans, traveling totally unprepared into harsh environmental conditions, thinking they'll just "Rambo" their way through, is stunning. The "Into the Wild" bus comes to mind[1]. So many people died every year, attempting to forge rivers unprepared, and brave the harsh Alaskan elements, that they had to remove this bus! It wasn't enough that people died every year, and that most of them had practically…
We choose to go to the moon!
Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
31–40 of 123 posts
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#32Call this a freely given and viable but hard to monetize idea - this is a very tractable area for software and drones. Same with locating people in lost wilderness areas. You have a programmatic way to organize coverage areas, you have access to above-human audio and video capabilities, and it reduces the resources/time ratio that is critical in rescues. This was the tragic and avoidable story that convinced me this…
If you needed help, you'd enter a text describing your situation (a default text would be used if you could only click a "HELP!" button), put the phone in a special mode that would shut everything down to conserve battery power but would send out a stronger-than-usual radio "ping" every 60 seconds or so (depending on battery). To save energy, the ping would not include the text. The repeated pings would be optimized to just shout into the ether, to get attention from the greatest distance possible.
Any receiver would recognize that it was an emergency ping and could respond with a protocol response ping that requested more info. The response would be sent at a predefined time delay and frequency that would be determined by the outgoing request ping that had been received so the phone would only have to listen to one frequency and for a brief time to save battery. The phone could rotate its outgoing pings to different frequencies but would always know when and at what frequency to listen for a response based on the outgoing ping it sent.
When it got a response from a tower, and only at that point, the phone would expend extra energy to transmit its location, the text, battery status, etc.
Based on various factors, the tower would schedule future transmissions and automate most of the data exchange to conserve the phone's power, would notify responders, and would tell the phone to notify its owner that help was being sent.
You could then put this emergency ping protocol into search and rescue aircraft and drones with mesh network abilities.
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure. It's the unknown search radius, availability of pilots, human factors, as well as the greater ability of a drone to self (or with human intervention) track in to greater resolution that makes me wonder if this is doable. Get the helicopter with a flir camera, but also send out 50 quadcopters or uavs as a force multiplier. If there is some sort of interesting infrared or acoustic signature at a site, just log it…
> Get the helicopter with a flir camera, but also send out 50 quadcopters or uavs as a force multiplier. You're going to have to contend with the disruption of 50 quadcopters barreling their way through natural wild habitat, foilage and more without disturbing all of the animals that live there. Or simply convince people that is a worth-while trade-off for saving unprepared skiiers that went off trail and down the wr…
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few hundred dollars seems fastastically expensive to me. What is possibly inside it that justifies that price?
It’s a satellite commS device. You also need a service for it to be useful. I do find it somewhat amusing to read a comment that a device that locates me anywhere on the planet and can communicate that information via satellite costs a few hundred dollars! to be vaguely amusing.
These devices tend to be expensive because most of them are manufactured to either FAA or Coast Guard standards that are pretty strict and require things like a multi-year permanent battery, water intrusion and impact tests, etc.
On the other hand you can get a couple of different consumer-pointing satellite communicators that rely on commercial networks, mostly GlobalStar. Spot X and Garmin InReach are the two big ones. Both are cheaper up front but require a monthly service plan. They do tend to have fancy features that PLBs can't offer like two-way text messaging, but they're not generally built to any particular standard for durability, so you wouldn't want to use them, say, at sea or in an airplane.
The COSPAS-SARSAT system also generally has better coverage than GlobalStar but there are tradeoffs, esp. depending on the different capability levels.
The thought that they're pricey seems like a reasonable thing when you compare e.g. a $400 EPIRB to the $200 Spot X, but the EPIRB is tested to work in water whereas the Spot X has janky firmware that doesn't always work great anywhere (I love mine but... it has rough edges).
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#35Call this a freely given and viable but hard to monetize idea - this is a very tractable area for software and drones. Same with locating people in lost wilderness areas. You have a programmatic way to organize coverage areas, you have access to above-human audio and video capabilities, and it reduces the resources/time ratio that is critical in rescues. This was the tragic and avoidable story that convinced me this…
I'd like to see all phones and phone towers fitted with an emergency ping ability and an emergency ping protocol, since almost everyone carries a phone these days. If you needed help, you'd enter a text describing your situation (a default text would be used if you could only click a "HELP!" button), put the phone in a special mode that would shut everything down to conserve battery power but would send out a stronge…
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few hundred dollars seems fastastically expensive to me. What is possibly inside it that justifies that price?
It’s a satellite commS device. You also need a service for it to be useful. I do find it somewhat amusing to read a comment that a device that locates me anywhere on the planet and can communicate that information via satellite costs a few hundred dollars! to be vaguely amusing.
Basically, if you can afford it, it works. If you can’t afford it, satellite comms might not have saved you anyway, even if you had it.
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Get the helicopter with a flir camera, but also send out 50 quadcopters or uavs as a force multiplier. You're going to have to contend with the disruption of 50 quadcopters barreling their way through natural wild habitat, foilage and more without disturbing all of the animals that live there. Or simply convince people that is a worth-while trade-off for saving unprepared skiiers that went off trail and down the wr…
I will push back on you a bit there. Most people can only cover a couple of dozen miles a day, depending on the person and the terrain. A lot of the time, they realize they are lost and will yell or try to make themselves found. Maybe a high foliage environment would be a better target for directional mics / acoustics. I think the search and rescue efforts as they stand are pretty disruptive (helicopters, teams cover…
I don't think this works as well as you might hope. When in dense foliage, it's difficult to hear sounds that are not that far away. It's a fantastic noise insulator. For this reason, survival classes usually teach signalling with reflective surfaces, like mirrors, watch faces, metal object/knives, etc. If you can sweep a helicopter with a reflection several times, they'll notice and rightfully think it's man-made. Plus, you can't hear someone screaming over a helicopter anyway.
> I think the search and rescue efforts as they stand are pretty disruptive (helicopters, teams covering grids) so I don't thin this is incrementally worse.
Certainly they are, but I do think drones close to the ground would be incredibly more disruptive, and potentially dangerous to curious wildlife.
> The "unprepared skiiers" you mention are someone's child (and often someone's parent).
You are not wrong. I think I was getting at, that most rescues are unglamorous, and usually caused by sheer stupidity of the people that were lost. Boats running out of fuel because they didn't prepare properly, or the skier example of ignoring all warnings, etc. It's not often that people were prepared, and the rock beneath their feet gave-way and now they're trapped.
Yes, we have to rescue stupid people too, but I think we should weigh the external costs to the environment when doing so. We wouldn't drain a lake to find a missing person. Maybe that's not a fair comparison? I don't know... but I do know people went outdoors to experience nature, so we shouldn't destroy it trying to save people either.
I guess, in short, you can make this scheme work, but I don't think it'll add tangible benefits to rescues, and it might actually be more effort to manage and operate, which could suck resources away from actual "boots on the ground/in the sky".
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#38I think the days of being stranded on islands are over. But what about oceans and being lost at sea? Would the film "Cast Away" make sense with today's satellite and object detection technology?
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#39Call this a freely given and viable but hard to monetize idea - this is a very tractable area for software and drones. Same with locating people in lost wilderness areas. You have a programmatic way to organize coverage areas, you have access to above-human audio and video capabilities, and it reduces the resources/time ratio that is critical in rescues. This was the tragic and avoidable story that convinced me this…
There is a lot of interest already in using both off-the-shelf and more purpose-built drone technologies in search and rescue. They currently have too many limitations: they cannot navigate complex tree canopies close enough to the ground to provide reliable visual contact with subjects; their flight time is so limited that deployment and management is a real pain for large search areas; and if they aren't fully automated then you get the same signal problems with your remote that we have with our much more powerful radios with the added benefit of extremely powerful repeaters scattered on nearby hills.
This isn't to say they can't be a resource in SAR. Alameda County brought out a brilliant array of UAV equipment after the Camp Fire and were able to survey large portions of the burned town of Paradise and then process the imagery down to almost 1 cm resolution in their IC trailer. It really was some next-gen stuff and they did it way faster than the ground pounders could survey the same area. Down in the southwest, in specific types of terrain, drones are being used to quickly survey some popular holes that hikers find their way into. And, a drone scouted an orchard and found a lost subject there about a year ago.
But you have to weigh those successes against the much larger number of cases where people with hundreds of hours of experience can still very nearly step on top of a nonresponsive subject without seeing them. Finding lost people is hard, and many of the failures to find lost people have more to do with the problems of getting bad information into IC, or searching the wrong area, or the subject being in an inaccessible area, or the lost person's remains getting quickly predated by local wildlife.
Thermal imaging likewise just does not work the way that people think it does. It doesn't work in cold environments like the Sierra in winter (western or eastern), because people are typically wearing insulated clothing and the entire area around them is a gigantic heat sink. It also doesn't work in very warm environments or in heavily vegetated environments or rocky environments with sunlight -- rocks absorb and re-radiate heat and so do plants.
I've had this conversation a few times with different technologists. What we need is a balloon that we can put up with a big ol' repeater on it. That would provide a lot more immediate benefit for search operations. But, it's not sexy, so nobody's as interested as they are in trying to fly quadcopters over impossible terrain 20 minutes at a time.
Re: Men rescued from Pacific island after writing SOS in sand
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Get the helicopter with a flir camera, but also send out 50 quadcopters or uavs as a force multiplier. You're going to have to contend with the disruption of 50 quadcopters barreling their way through natural wild habitat, foilage and more without disturbing all of the animals that live there. Or simply convince people that is a worth-while trade-off for saving unprepared skiiers that went off trail and down the wr…
I don't think there is any such principle as "if rescuing the human might disturb some animals, just let him die."